Please help ASAP! feet on a dish

[Joel OF]

Hi folks, I'm a complete novice and I'm making a present for my mate's birthday tomorrow, I'm making him a simple dish, see pic attached.

I have about 3 hours tomorrow to add the finishing touches so I'm really pushed for time! Just what you need when you're a novice that doesn't 100% know what they're doing and doesn't really have enough tools!!!

I want to make some feet for this dish by attaching 2 pieces of round stock bar, (about 1/2 inch in diameter and about 4 inches in length), to the bottom of the dish about 3-4 inches in from each end. This dish is 6mm thick and about 30cm long. (Mixing my imperial and metric, variety is the spice of life!)

A - do you think I will be able to drill the dish and the round bar with a hand drill/electric drill? My Dad has a hand drill, I have an electric.

B - if I can drill everything, do you think I could make rivets with some 3mm stock to hold the feet to the dish?

Or...will doing all this screw it up and I should leave it as it is without feet?

(P.S. how much could I charge for a simple dish like this, with the feet? I know value is subjective but I have no idea how to calculate prices. I made this from some larger pieces of off cut which I bought for £10. I work in a shop that I could sell this kinda dish in if I asked the manager, but I don't want to approach them about selling on sale or return basis without a figure in mind.)

[Glenn]

You may want to build a separate base and just set it on the base.

[ThomasPowers]

Electric drill. You could do it with a hand crank cole drill but it would be a pain.

Yes rivets will work if used right. Have you thought of using copper grounding wire as rivets thus getting the mixed metals look?

You may want to look at having non marring feet, wood or felt covered metal.

I would not make the support a separate item as over time they tend to get separated.

[ianinsa]

That is a great looking dish!

[GRiley904]

Just a first thought from a novice who also doesn't know much but, you could drill the dish slightly smaller than the stock used for the feet, then gently taper your feet stock to fit through your dish and peen the protruding end inside the dish. It works like a button.

[John B]

You can drill and rivet, but you may wish to look at your spacings, the dish is 12" long approx, and you will have a large hangover at each end making it "tippable"

I personally would consider using four felt sticky pads on the base to prevent damage to furniture.

[Joel OF]

Thanks for the replies people.

GRiley - that sounds great but I have no idea how to do that and have virtually no tools.

John B - I can see your point though the dish is quite heavy and the feet would only lift it slightly off the table, so any tipping would be minimal. Definitely taken note for future projects thought.

Ianinsa - Thankyou. I love you.

ThomasPowers - I have no idea what that stuff you mentioned is, though mixed media does sound great, (I want to approach a carpenter/joiner mate at some point for doing "Oak and Iron" pieces), and I don't think I can get a hold of the things you mentioned before tomorrow.

Please keep them coming. (Especially any praise hee hee).

[David Einhorn]

I like the dish the way it is, so I would suggest not adding feet, just a clear mat finish and call it done.

[GRiley904]

All you need is a drill and a hammer.if you have access to it Tim Lively has a video called knife making unplugged in witch he uses this method to secure the handle to the knife. It's pretty simple.

[Joel OF]

David, GRiley, thankyou for your quick replies. I'll look up Tim's video.

David - is a clear matt finish achieved with beeswax? I watched a David Neeman (axe and tool maker) video where he melted some beeswax over his work.

I haven't wire brushed the dish at all, not whilst I was making it nor after, part of the reason being that I love the red rust VS the grey of the steel. Will adding any finish require me to remove this colour variation?

P.S when I started this yesterday I thought it looked kinda Japenese, like a sushi dish or something. I tried Googleing "Japenese dish" etc to see if I could find anyting similar but I had no joy. I really like these sorta of simple and bold designs, can anyone point me towards similar stuff for inspiration for future projects?

[ThomasPowers]

Here in the USA a building's electrical system has a ground connection to a copper clad post driven deep into the soil next to it. The wire running from the fuse/breaker box to the grounding rod is quite heavy bare copper. So any good DIY place has rolls of this heavy copper that they sell by the foot. Makes it a reasonable source of heavy copper stock---stuff I use is about 4mm in diameter.

Also in the USA you can find felt or rubber pads with sticky backs at craft stores to make quick and simple non scratching "feet" for items like that. You can of course make your own with a bit of glue and felt---if you use a glue that will stick to both materials!

As for Oak and Iron---what about making a nice base of oak, routing out the general shape and size of the bowl and then hot matching the two letting the bowl burn it's exact shape in for a good fit---have to practice a bit to get heat and pressure down and will need to wirebrush the burnt bits out of the hole and off the dish but you should get some interesting effects...

[Joel OF]

Thomas - IF ONLY shops in England stocked the every day stuff that American DIY shops stocked! I very quickly learnt that following American "brake drum forge" designs consisting of "easy to find" products in "your local hardware store" simply don't exist in England. E.g foot long lengths of threaded pipe do not exist ANYWHERE in my area, anywhere.

[John B]

If you want to wax it, warm it first then apply the wax, beeswax can be sticky, beeswax based furniture cream is not so sticky, or you could use a candle. when the piece cools, buff/polish off any spare wax.

Or if you wish to preserve the colour, use a clear acrylic lacquer aerosol, you should be able to get this from Halfords, B and Q or a local garage may stock them, you can get the clear in gloss, or matt finish, whatever you apply will tend to alter the colour somewhat.

[Joel OF]

Cheers John. I work in a shop that sells didgeridoos so we sell beeswax bars for the end your mouth goes on, I bought a bar the other day...I'll pick up some of the lacquer you mentioned too and try test patches of both on the bottom to see the results.

[ThomasPowers]

can you test on a separate test piece? Once you wax you can't lacquer without serious clean up.

Kurgan; the nearest crafts store to my house is about 100 miles and no public transport available. We stack up our "city" visits to save on petrol.

Have you seen the ironwork exhibit at the V&A? we stopped by on our way home from Wales this spring.

[Joel OF]

There's loads of steel merchants and tool shops locally as I live in a city, I tried them all. Xxxx no, not dared venture into Londoom recently, can't face the public transport with the Olympics! Chronic ill health conditions limit my movements too. I'll try on a seperate piece as you suggest.

[ThomasPowers]

We were dodging QE2, seems like every place we visited was closing early to "brush up for the Queen's visit *tomorrow*!" We left for home before the Olympics came to town; spent most of our time in Cardiff and Hay on Wye; but my wife had to see the spider silk exhibit at the V&A and I snuck in a visit to the ironwork display and also a quick stop by James Watt's workroom "next door" at the Science museum

[pkrankow]

Handsome dish.

After you get a finish on it you can put take some plastic wrap from the kitchen and wrap a flat board tight, put 4 dollops of clear silicone caulk neat the corners of the dish (not too big, but not too small.) Then put down some sticks to act as spacers; popsicle sticks, bamboo skewers, washers... whatever you have on hand, you are just making a space while the silicone caulk dries. Place the dish in/on the silicone caulk and spacers. When it dries remove the caulk should not bond to the plastic wrap, and you get nice feet that protect the table and hold the dish level. A good finished guesstimate for the finished pad is 1/2 to 3/4 inch...er...12mm-19mm.

(might not dry fully in 12 hours though...)

Hope your friend likes it. It is something special.

Phil

[Frosty]

I believe you've gotten plenty of terrific ideas to adapt and adopt to your services. My only comments are in regards to your statements about not knowing 100%. and not having enough tools. Let me tell you brother, NOBODY here is 100%, the craft of the smith offers more knowledge than all of us could learn in many lifetimes.

You DON'T have enough tools? WELL DUH, it's just not humanly possible to get "enough" tools, or space to keep your stuff, not to be confused with room to work. Blacksmithing is an addiction, don't fight it, just let it come. You WILL be assimilated! Seriously, I didn't get the roof on my 30'x40' shop and it was crowded you aught to see it now. Frosty need bigger shop.<sigh>

Glad to have you Brother.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Joel OF]

Thanks for all the replies folks, much appreciated. GRiley I re-read your posts this morning, now I'm sober I understand what you mean though I want to keep the feet horizontal & flat to the base & I think your suggestion relies on the feet being vertical or with right angles at each end.

I'll take a cple pics of the finished product for y'all to grimmace at, haha. Cheers again.

[GRiley904]

You're absolutely right Kurgan, I didn't know you wanted them horizontal. I was just throwing it out there. Now that you mention it, the way you spoke of riveting the pieces together, it makes allot more sense.

[Richard Furrer]

You could heat small areas on the base of the dish...place that heated area over the hardie hole (or block of wood and be quick due to smoke)..set a ball tool (round nose hammer) and strike that tool with a hammer. It should indent and dimple the underside of the plate thus raising up the dish. Some folk do not like hitting hammers with other hammers though.
Two on each end and your done...provided you can match depth OR two one end and one on the other.
A better support would be sand or a proper round cavity in a steel block, but the hardie or wood will do.

wire brush, heat a bit and coat with wax.

the fastest way is just with some glued on cork or felt, but the above will make an interesting effect on both sides of the bowl.

be well and do get to the V&A,
Ric

[Joel OF]

Hi folks, you're never going to guess what happened...the chuck on the drill was broken and wouldn't tighten around the drill bit so I couldn't make the feet afterall! Don't all rush to kill me at once. I guess I'll have to get the dish back off him and add the feet at a later date.

So instead of making the feet I knocked up a quick ashtray and experimented with "colouring" the dish. That was a real learning curve as I ruined the nice red with too much beeswax, but I ended up with some interesting colours which sadly don't really how in the picture. I rubbed beeswax and coal into the edges to soften them/darken them down, I rubbed a smashed up bit of red brick into the middle to put some red back in, but I also experimented with wire brushing the dish so I ended up with some really interesting shades of green which ran into some red then out to the black at the edges. Kinda like the weird shades of colour bruises go.

Hey ho, it's all a learning curve! Atleast my mate liked the dish and it became a bit of a talking point. Thanks again for all the help.

[GRiley904]

Was it broken or in a bind? I had one in a bind once, took it apart, and soaked the chuck in penetrating oil. Taking time to work it every 20 minutes or so and had it freed up in an afternoon.

[Joel OF]

The three "teeth" that come together to tighten around the drill bit didn't tighten at all, they were stuck open.