Moving large platen tables

[dan_m]

I'm not sure where this post belonged so I stuck it here, sorry if it's in the wrong spot. I just spoke with someone who is selling a large platen table (7' x 8'), which is in two pieces that can be unbolted. He wasn't at the shop when we talked, and didn't know offhand if the halves are 3.5' x 8' or 4' x 7' (I'm wondering if it's just 4' x 8' and he is mistaken). I've never moved something this large before, and I need some advice on how to go about it.

First off, there's a forklift in my building that we can use to unload it on my end, but this guy does not have one. Is it possible to rent a forklift, or bobcat with forks, for a few hours? If so, where do I look for something like that, and how much can I expect to pay? Also, I have no idea how I would move the thing from the rental place to his shop. Thoughts? I've got an E350 super duty van, which fits 4' x 8' material flat on the floor, but I'm assuming these are too heavy to load the long way and that I'll need to rent a trailer—am I right about this?

All of this seems like a lot of hassle, but I'd really love a platen table, especially one this large, so I'm going to have to deal with the logistics at some point. Do you think it would be worth it to just find someone local to me who has a large trailer & forklift they can load onto it and pay them to drive me down and get it? He is a little over an hour away. Since the price is obviously a factor in how much effort/expenditure it's worth just picking it up, he's asking $1200 for it, stand included as well as a few pieces of tooling. Please let me know if that's a reasonable deal and worth the trouble...I've been keeping my eye out for one for the last six months and it seems pretty fair to me, especially considering that most of the time I can't even find any for sale at all locally.

Thanks for all your advice!

[Stash]

Where in Phila are you? I'm down in DelCo. Lotsa folk might be willing for a fee to haul for you. Rollback tow truck, excavator or landscaper with a trailer and bobcat, tree guy with a boom truck. Might just work to hire a rigger. Plenty of ways to skin your particular cat. You could find a local at your pickup point to load it on your rented trailer. Make sure the towing and loading equipment has the capacity to move these slabs.

Plenty of ways to do this- use your own network, or let your fingers do the walking.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[macbruce]

At $1200 you didn't get hurt, It looks to be in good shape......Trailer yes, and spend some extra time on the road say 1 1/2 hrs to make the trip. Be careful of Bobcats with forks, the forks don't stay horizontal when lifting or lowering.....I dumped a compressor once on account of this.....When you mount it on it's table the forks are an impediment, you'll need to run a chain or good lifting straps through the holes (well centered) to get around this.....They're worth the hassle, cept drawing layouts on em is...difficult.

[Tom Allyn]

Any local equipment rental outfit would rent you a forklift and trailer. But as others have suggested, finding a contractor who's short of work right now (there are plenty) might get you a better price.

[Larry H]

If it were me , I would rent dollies to set each of the feet on......find two channels 9' long to hold the dolly wheels ( to even the weight ) roll the table or use a come-a-long to get it on the rails (channel ) on the trailer. use chain to anchor the table (on the truck side ) and put tension toward the rear with the come-a-long....drive slow. When you roll it off be sure to use the come-a-long so it doesn't run anything over,....chock the wheels, roll up the come-a-long, use a chain to take up the slack, start over.

[dan_m]

Thanks for the advice guys. BTW macbruce, I didn't buy it (yet), just wanted others' opinion on the price...seemed reasonable enough to me, but I haven't been looking that long. smithy1, not sure exactly what you mean. I don't understand how, once it was on dollies, I would get it up onto a trailer. Care to elaborate? I'm experienceless as far as stuff like this goes, never even used a trailer before (my van has a hitch though, so renting one isn't off the table). Also, I didn't mention it in the original post as it didn't seem relevant, but there is an ironworker in the way that needs to be moved to get the table out. I guess this could be propped with jacks also put on dollies to move it? I'd rather do it myself a save a few hundred dollars, but at this point it looks like if I need to rent a forklift I may as well pay someone else to move it. If you or anyone else can explain how to get it from dollies onto the trailer without one that would be great, otherwise I'll start looking for help tomorrow.

[Glenn]

You would be surprised what some 2 inch pipe (20 footers) and some short sections of 2 inch pipe can accomplish. I moved my platten almost 75 feet across a yard and to the front of the shop. I then used an engine hoist to lift and move it into the shop. While it was on the concrete floor, I destroyed 4 of the 6 wheels on the hoist. Too much load, not enough wheels, although the ratings said it would work with room to spare. (grin).

Being under powered or under tooled can get you into trouble, or hurt. Come-a-longs are good but do not compete with an electric wench. You may have 4000 - 5000 pounds of metal there. Be sure your trailer and what ever you have pulling it are rated for that load.

[Larry H]

well soon (in the spring) I will be bringing a 5'x10' platen 75 miles to my new shop. The frame has flat plates on the bottom of the angle iron legs, I've procured four wheels , with 1,500# capacity each which I will weld to them. The trailer ( from u-haul ) has a 6,000 pound rating. In order not to bounce the table through the floor of the trailer, I will put 4" channel on the floor of the trailer. Since it will be on wheels... and the trailer has a ramp....it will agonizingly slow....pull it up with a come-a-long onto the channel and secure it with chain. put reverse pressure with the come-a-long, and go home with it.

[SmoothBore]

You guys are scaring me to death !

Trailers, ... ramps, ... REALLY !

I hope you mean a low-boy of at least 10,000# capacity.

For those who aren't familiar with trailer specs, the GVW rating on a trailer includes the weight of the trailer.

As an example, my 7,000# GVW trailer, weighs 2,300# EMPTY, and the load range "D" tires are rated for 1,750# each.

That leaves me a MAXIMUM cargo weight, of 4,700#.


Sure, you might "get away" with overloading a trailer, and exceeding your vehicle's towing capacity, ...

But why on Earth would you take the chance ?


Just a few months ago, I used a first class Rigger, with a Rollback, to move a 16" x 30" Monarch Lathe.

It was about a 100 mile round trip.

He winched the lathe onto the truck off a ground level floor, and deposited it back to ground level in my shop without breaking a sweat.

( Having the right equipment, ... and knowing how to use it, ... is absolutely PRICELESS. )

The whole job took about 3 hours, ... and he charged me $250.


You would spend that much to rent a trailer, and put gas in your tow vehicle.


Quite often, ... " Discretion is the better part of Valor ".


.

[Ten Hammers]

I have observed no weight of the material to be moved (unless I missed it). Lift trucks have a dataplate listing the capacity rated for the unit and the load center is more than likely on the plate or in the manual. As listed above (smoothbore) hiring a competent rigger or moving company may be the smart thing.

You MUST know the weight of the material to be moved if you are to get an educated system of moving it. If you have no dock(s) to use this changes things somewhat but simply figures into the issue.

I would imagine the receiver on your 350 truck would be rated. The trailer you rent would be rated. The D.O.T. will have requirements for tie downs and /or flags. If you move this yourself you will be held responsible. Maybe it's easier to hire a car hauler with a ramp that moves hydraulically. You should know the weight of the table. Portable scales are in use as we speak and scanned weigh stations as well. If you pass through one of these with your personal vehicle and are above the license rating of your truck and/or the trailer you may indeed be in trouble. Just prepare yourself. A wrecker service may be able to help you or even a car dealership that moves disabled vehicles. Some measuring of the material you wish to move and a simple list of steel weights should tell you your weight pretty close (I didn't see table thickness but you did list length and width). Good Luck.

By the way, I'd love to have that table. My shop just isn't big enough for it.

[ThomasPowers]

You might ask the seller if there is a forklift of suitable capacity in their neighborhood that you could rent---they probably know whats available near them better than you will.

When I bought my large screw press I paid the rigger nearly as much as my winning bid on the screwpress to get it loaded on my truck and did not begrudge it a penny! (OK, so my bid was $50 and the rigging charge was $35; but it was *nice* not to be sweating the loading for once!) When I got it back to the shop I offloaded it onto 4x4 skids bolted to the feet and then drug it across the gravel and used rollers to get it into the shop.

*SLOW* and *SAFE* are the keywords! Watch out for leg failures, chain failures, forklift failures---you get the idea...

[Larry H]

Smoothbore.....so what you are saying is if you have wiggle room...meaning 4'700 # available, and the table weighs 3,900, it's O.K. by you ?.... because a maximum of 4,700 wouldn't be over loading on a 3,900# table. On the east coast, riggers and or rollbacks will cost almost half of the cost of the table, if that was the case for you, wouldn't you try to think of a less costly way to do it ? If you follow the rules of safety, use ingenuity, add some elbow grease, and even a mortal man can move a mountain.

[r smith]

I have several 5x5 platen tables and the weights vary from 3900lbs for the heaviest to 2200lbs for the lightest. these are a lot smaller than yours. I would look into a flatbed towtruck. And yes that is a good deal.

[dan_m]

Well, I appreciate everyone's advice. When I talked to the guy he didn't know the thickness of the table or the hole size, but I'm going down to check it out tomorrow morning and I'll be able to calculate the weight after that. Thinking about it more, it probably is out of my vehicle's capacity to move it all at once, and considering the hassle it will be to move it myself as well as needing two trips, I'll probably call around for some help tomorrow after I figure out the weight.

[pkrankow]

The whole job took about 3 hours, ... and he charged me $250. You would spend that much to rent a trailer, and put gas in your tow vehicle. Quite often, ... " Discretion is the better part of Valor ". .

Wow, that is cheap (says someone who has never hired a rigger) I will keep this in mind.

Reminds me of getting my firewood processed, $100 for a weekend rental and I do it myself, or $25/hour for 2 men and a splitter (the guys I buy firewood from, when needed) They were done in 4 hours with 6 cord, I think I did OK.

Phil

[r smith]

Call towtruck driver and tell them you need to move a workbench, and ask what their hourly rate is. Can you back the flatbed towtruck up to the table and winch it right on the truck off the stand? Ask if you need wood to protect the truckbed- pretend that you care. Then he can dump them where you want and not run up a large amount of time messing around unloading.
Good luck

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

When calculating the weight look underneath. Most have a skirt about six-inches high and are only around 2" thick on the rest with a little ribbing. Some are solid. I had one that was kinda beat up and I flipped it over. It was solid and was machined on the other side too! Weighed 4,200lbs. 5 X 5.

[yesteryearforge]

I kept a table from a large CNC milling machine that I scrapped
Moved it with my sons goose neck trailer behind a 3/4 ton dodge pickup
We used a 22000 lb lift truck to load it and a big john deere loader from a local sawmill to unload it
It weighed 16, 874 lbs ( lifted the back wheels of the john deere loader off of the ground )
4 feet wide X 21 feet long x 12 inches thick

[SmoothBore]

Smoothbore.....so what you are saying is if you have wiggle room...meaning 4'700 # available, and the table weighs 3,900, it's O.K. by you ?.... because a maximum of 4,700 wouldn't be over loading on a 3,900# table. On the east coast, riggers and or rollbacks will cost almost half of the cost of the table, if that was the case for you, wouldn't you try to think of a less costly way to do it ?

Of course I would, ... and do, ... try to save a buck whenever I can.


It gets a little complicated, because, as I see it, there are several issues in question.

If it was just about the weight, I wouldn't hesitate to haul a stable, well secured load, that was right up to my legal maximum.

I sometimes load and haul old farm tractors, by pulling them up ramps, with a chain come-a-long.

This is a simple, safe way to load that sort of equipment, because they are on wheels, ... can be steered, ... there is no danger of them sliding sideways, or otherwise losing control of them, ... and once on the road, there is little danger of them coming "adrift" under "Emergency" braking conditions.


But loading a slab of Grey Iron, of equal weight, would present a much more difficult problem, ... and have the potential to do a lot more damage/injury, if something should go wrong.

( I've seen chains break, ... load binders break, ... truck and trailer axles break, ... tires explode, ... and all sorts of other, unforeseen situations turn a seemingly simple job, into a catastrophe. )


I too would love to have that platen in my shop, ... and if there was no other way to get it, I would move it myself.


My point, is that you won't save as much as you think by moving it yourself, ... and the risks you assume by doing so, are high.


In my opinion, this is a time where it's more prudent to pay a Professional ( with adequate liability insurance ) to do this job, and look at the TOTAL cost of the project, rather than playing "bean counter", and trying to break it down into "Capital Expenditures", and "Overhead Costs".


It's that "Bean Counter" mentality, ... favored by "Business School" graduates, ... that's done so much to destroy America's Manufacturing base.


*********************************************************************************************


Phil,

My rigging cost on that job is probably a little misleading, because the Rigger is an old friend, who I used to hire on a fairly regular basis, in my official capacity as "Plant Engineer" of a Manufacturing Company.

Over the years, I've helped him out with Electrical problems, and he's moved several machines into my current shop.

I'm sure he gave me a good deal, ... but I'm equally sure that he can't afford to give his services away.

The bottom line is, that whatever the cost, when he moves a machine, he arrives with the equipment, and knowledge, to do a safe, seamless job.

And that's worth quite a bit.



.

[dan_m]

Went and checked it out this afternoon. It's a 4x8 platen bolted to a 3x8, 3.25" thick through not counting the skirt (thanks for that tip Grant, probably would have overlooked it). Taking into account the number and volume of the holes, they should weigh approximately 3000 and 2250 respectively. The stand is one piece, all welded, including a 7x8, 1/4" thick plate that the legs are bolted to. That plate alone should weigh nearly 600 pounds, so I'm figuring the overall weight to be 6500-7000 pounds to be safe. I'm not even going to bother attempting this on a trailer with my van. The guy mentioned that he'd rather not deliver it, but might be willing to rent a forklift and use his trailer for $500. I know I'll end up paying more than that for a rigger, and I found out today I've got access to a stake body truck that should handle it no problem, but that still leaves me having to rent a forklift. I briefly looked up forklift rental prices today (not so sure that he did), and it seems like between compensating someone for the use of their truck and renting the forklift with delivery and pick-up I'm better off talking the guy into delivering it and saving myself the trouble. There is also a bunch of other equipment there, including a 150# Peter Wright anvil (top flat and in good shape minus a little hill in the few inches before the step), angle roll (which I would really love), lathe, ironworker, electric hoist, plasma cutter, a few other things I can't remember now, and tons of smaller bits. I know they've been trying to sell the stuff for at least 6 months if not longer (called an acquaintance with a rigging question who we ended up realizing had gone to check out the ironworker and platen table over the summer), and it's in the middle of nowhere with a gravel driveway, tons of junk blocking the route of a forklift (including an abandoned car rebuild that needs to be pushed out of the building), so I'm hoping they'll give me a good discount if I take it all at once.

[pkrankow]

Broken down you are dealing with less than 2 tons per piece (your numbers). If you have a hard surface an engine hoist *may* be able to do this, pending on needed reach. Sounds like that may be helpful on your own end only though. Professionals are surprisingly cheap at times, so the phone call may be in order to ask.

Phil

[dan_m]

Broken down you are dealing with less than 2 tons per piece (your numbers). If you have a hard surface an engine hoist *may* be able to do this, pending on needed reach. Sounds like that may be helpful on your own end only though. Professionals are surprisingly cheap at times, so the phone call may be in order to ask.

Phil

I don't have an engine hoist, but there is a forklift here I can use to unload it. Do you think it would be realistic to mount a winch on the truck I have available and use it to pull the plates onto the bed? I was thinking of rolling the table up to the truck, using the winch to pull one plate off the stand a few inches, jacking the overhanging bit up enough to clear the bed, backing the truck up under it, and pulling it on. Then same thing with the second piece, with wood blocking between the two so I can unload it with the forklift on my end. I drew a picture to explain what I mean. It seems alright in my head, so let me know if I'm overlooking something. I called a rigger today, the guy who does all the work for the building I'm in, and he quoted me $650. Even the $500 the guy offered to deliver for seems like a lot to pay on top of the cost of the table itself. Wish it was just down the street.

[r smith]

Did you call towruck? What you plan is is exactly what I was trying to tell you a flatbed towtruck would do. Only the truck bed will tilt so you need not jack up the table, and their truck will have a monster winch built in. If that is to much to pay then yes your way will also work. How will you get the frame on the truck without a forklift?

[pkrankow]

I think lifting it with a machine will be safer than dragging it up over a gap. You can rent a lot of equipment for $500.

Phil

[Dave Hammer]

You are courting disaster if you don't have the proper equipment to load and move your table. Lifting and moving something heavy is tricky enough (as an amateur) to do safely. Dragging it (something that I have never seen done by a professional) off a stand to get it loaded has to be a lot more dangerous. There is a reason it costs that much to move equipment safely. It is not uncommon for it to cost more than (you paid for) a piece of equipment to get it moved and into place. Rent an equipment trailer and take the forklift to use it.