pkrankow Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Any tool we have can be broken. "Why do it?????" Committing waste is not a part of my frugal upbringing and way of life. I invite most to my shop to play. You may come but keep your hands off the sledge hammers. If you are committing to having a number of tools produced for sale, breaking one is often cheap insurance vs having to take one back later. If the process is wrong, the materials not right, or any of a number of different reasons the product is not as perfect as reasonable possible then taking it to task is often the easiest means to find out. I assure you hundreds of thousands of parts and tools are destroyed world wide DAILY as part of quality control, and not just by big business. You can look at the ABS journeyman bladesmith test as an example test to destruction.http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=172 Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 OOPS! Sorry! I busted in on the middle of this thread and didn't realize you were actually testing your own product! Should have backed up to the beginning... Bring your block and your anvil to my shop and have at it!!!! Why do I go through life opening my big mouth before I should? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 crikey, wish I hadn't said anything now! Nobody could say that cast iron is unsuitable for use as a swage block now. Thanks for going the extra level of abuse on the block Giles. I hope you and your hammers are all ok after the assult though?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well… I told you it was tough stuff and it is. Hammer faces are all fine Dave – relatively, they are so much harder than the block – the handle that broke came as a surprise (best American hickory!). To be fair, until my recent experience with a low-phosphorus ‘modern’ cast iron I would have been suspicious of cast iron as a block material too. What I find particularly surprising is the malleability of the stuff, but this only seems to show under a really heavy blow; using hammers of between 1 and 3½ pounds to hit it, the surface merely looks burnished. Eric, no problem, I’d be horrified if I thought anyone was using gratuitous violence on a good tool; but, as Phil points out, this is a new product being tested (it has a few casting and finishing flaws, so was being used for a test before going back in the melter). Beth, no need, that is one of the things my wife is for. Guy, fat chance of a lie-in with a toddler around… As an aside, I had a spare few minutes after forging yesterday and used the undamaged upsetting hole, it worked a treat; I then flattened the upset end and whacked it at a high yellow heat into the ‘rose’ feature (distorted), same again with the ‘star’. Bearing in mind that I have not tidied the block up – i.e. smoothed the casting surface and defined (filed) the features’ corners / edges – they gave very good impressions; but I’ll use a near welding heat next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 nice :) cant wait to try those out :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Back from the foundry again with a couple of blocks. Hmm… they had half a dozen which had been cast at the latest of a couple of different temperatures, the most successful so far being at 1340 degrees C. I brought the best two back with me, one is certainly going to go back in the melter; I think the other will be alright, but will give it a good going over this weekend before I decide for certain. They all had slight casting flaws on the upper surface; this appears to be a function of my design – the large spoon and deep hemispherical recess tend to push the ‘rubbish’ up to the area surrounding them. I have uploaded some pic’s - below - to show this. There is a small bit in a few places on the upper parts of these features too. The lower face and sides are fine (middle two pics). The good news is that the ‘dishing’ problem has been solved (the upper face as a whole was often slightly concave), both faces being flat on all the blocks I saw. Obviously I want all features to be perfect, but am I being unreasonable to hope for this with an inexact science such as foundry (not laboratory) casting? What is to be expected and what is acceptable for a complicated shape like this? Thoughts from those who have an interest will be gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I guess you need to dress those funny looking areas and see if it is just in the sand/iron boundary or if it is deeper. If it dresses out very quickly then it won't be a problem. Also based on my understanding of how Yater blocks were processed by Mr. Yater there were always some surface defects that ended up being filled with nickle weld as he dressed his blocks prior to sale. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Giles - Well, I have to say that your swage block looks very nice - casting flaws - yep each one of the blocks I have has some imperfections in them like what you describe - not a problem ( look at the flaws in anvils or other swage blocks for that matter ). I believe your blocks will work just fine and be worth your effort of moving forward with this project to supply some nice swage blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 i was going to say the same - its surface damage - i dont mind that at all, its so slight, and you would expect a little. i think it looks wonderful ! like i have said, i really appreciate your thoroughness giles :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Foreigner Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Understand what you are saying but from my perspective I agree with everyone above. Looks good to me, I like individuality, which is what I believe this craft/profession is all about. If I wanted 'perfection' (what ever that is...) I would commission tooling in CNC and "stamp it out in factory in China" (note: even if I did want to I don't have the money and anyway, vin rouge takes preference) Go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Giles, I think the blocks look good! I don't think you really hit it hard enough though. (kidding!!) And thanks for the 'swage block drop' dedication!!! :) I assume the surface imperfections will grind out easily? I buy a new hammer, I dress it, why shouldn't we dress a new swage block?? Seems reasonable to me. I've been doing a lot of Al casting at work recently, and the castings always need refining. I guess that is just what you get with sand casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I’ve now spent a couple of hours dressing a block with a grinder, flap wheel, sander, files & paper and I am quite pleased with the result, same again and I think it will be enough. (I’ve not yet done anything to the ‘novelty’ features, only the utilitarian parts) I’m not bothered by small marks on non-working surface. That said, the bottom face of the block (with the widest dishing feature) is spot on, but there are a few small pits on the top face - in the biggest spoon and deepest ladle (see pic's below). I have no means of measuring depth other than my Vernier callipers, but the deepest is a lot less than 1/32". Not a big problem, but potential buyers are hereby made aware. On this first block that I’m keeping (I'll use it as an experimental / demo' block) the biggest flaw is between the inclined planes on a flat (not a working surface, see pic’); a bit of sand came out leaving a 2mm deep hole that is 4mm long… I did not notice this until last night; I will not supply a block with a flaw of this size to anyone else without their prior approval following a viewing of emailed photographs. I suspect I’m over-sensitive to marks due to my silver and gold working background, certainly I’d have been happy to find a block like this for sale if I hadn’t developed this one. A point a friend has made is that a slight pit will just lead to a slight bump on a spoon or ladle, which could then be filed / ground down; I think that is a good point. John B has pointed out that the size of hammer face used will also be of relevance; I think that is another good point. However, I am looking into ways of mitigating these blemishes - if necessary - without removing much metal and will pass on any I think viable. Following the feedback that has already been given, I’ll speak to the head foundryman tomorrow morning and give him the go ahead to start casting. When I saw him last Friday, he estimated that - allowing for poor casts - I can expect an average of two blocks every week. (Which, I suppose, means from zero up to four!) Please remember that, apart from shot blasting, your blocks will be supplied as they come out of the mould and you’ll have to dress them yourselves. I’ll send a couple of sheets with each block giving what advice I think is appropriate and helpful in re’ dressing, dimensions and use. I’ll supply them in the order that people expressed interest; although some may want theirs later, collected at shows or via friends to avoid shipping cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 that looks wonderful giles! i dont know where i am in the queue but if anyone is 'urgent' then i am happy to hang on. . which of these shows will you be at giles ? how many do you think you have orders for? v excited :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 What is the final cost of these? Weight? Demensions . Now that you have them completed. Sorry if i have already missed these details. Also what would the freight cost be to get one to South Australia? Probably too much i imagine :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Swiftden, most of the info' you want is in the thread. Diemensions = 10"x10"x4", Weight = 79lbs / 36kg. I'll do some searching and PM you with estimates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Foreigner Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Looks really good - I would be well pleased if I had taken that from design to production. Got a mate coming over in June so allowing time for him to get over and pick it up before then, just let me know when available. Excellent job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 As a pleasant surprise I have had enquiries about blocks from people in Southern Australia and the Midwest of the US. These are very welcome, but an obvious concern is the cost of shipping, so I am currently looking into the most economical method of delivery. Clearly there could be economies of scale if more blocks were to be sent in a given order. So, if anyone in these areas is considering a block, please let me know... the more the merrier and the cheaper. If anyone knows of a bit of space in a shipping container that is up for rent, I would be glad to hear from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 very pleased you got some far flung orders giles, thats a quality job youve sorted there! :) cant wait to use mine :) must talk to you about these shows, will pm you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 the block looks great (as it has all the way through!), I can't wait to put mine to use :) The standard swage block I use has horrendous flaws across the whole of one surface (not the edges, but the broad surface) I think some of the holes are a good inch across and 1/4" deep! I don't mind a little dressing on a new block, virtually all of the second hand tools I get have needed some redressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 GNJC - I think(?) JohnN (Mr Massey) up near Manchester collects anvils to send out in a container to the states - probably worth asking him if he has some room in his next shipment? (I could be completely wrong). What is the cost for a block unshipped? Its a 9 page thread... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks for that Al, check your PM. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Received delivery of one of the blocks today, excellent job, having to make a stand for it now Well done Giles ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 yep I too have my new block :) It does look very good I have to say! I won't get the chance to tidy it up until next week, so haven't used it yet. I guess I should figure out what I'm going to use it for now I have it :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 :) so cool :) looking forward to seeing pictures, and seeing mine!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Got the stand made, got the pictures, got the 403 error and they will not upload, sorry, will keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.