freeman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm trying to forge a branch and I've run into a problem: the stem for my leaves is so thin that it loses heat before I can get it welded to a larger piece of stock. I've stuck a RR track anvil in the fire to cut the distance I have to travel to a minimum and still no dice. As you can see I've burned the stems off of a couple of leaves now trying to get them to weld: The bar stock I'm using for the branch is 3/8 and to get the look I want the stems have been drawn down to 1/8. Any suggestions on how to get these welded without resorting to MIG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Oz/Ac torch. Heat the stock, apply, heat the leaf, and weld. I would suggest the same type filler rod as the parent material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Wire them together (or a light tack weld as a clamp), put them all in the fire (gas or coal) and bring them up to temp, flux as normal, when ready to weld reach in with stout tongs and pinch the parts...its called a "pinch weld" and they will stick. Let them come back up to temp and go a few more times. Once it is mostly touching then you can remove and finished the weld "properly" on the anvil...which should be very close to the forge. It is the closest thing to standing in the forge as you will get. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have had the same problem many times. What I do is attach the leaf to the stem with a tiny mig or tig weld. Build a small spring swedge in the size you need. Then heat, flux, and weld right over the weld in the swedge. the mig bead will help the heat from the larger piece keep the smaller piece hot. With a little practice this will get easy. Do not make the spring stock too big so it can twist around and align it self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Induction forge? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Forge brazing? Does seem like the poster child for tig though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 there is a great video by Mark Aspery http://www.youtube.com/user/MarkAspery?blend=8&ob=5#p/u/10/dXiideiZnZg hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I think the pinch weld is your best bet..you are dealing with very different cross-sections and you have close to no time to stick the weld. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Pinch weld, or penny weld ( forge braze with copper ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Pinch weld, or penny weld ( forge braze with copper ) As I said above..."when ready to weld reach in with stout tongs and pinch the parts...its called a "pinch weld" " If you melt dis-similar metal into the interface then it is a braze....if above 850F...and a penny would not be my first choice..better to use a known material I think if you wish to do that. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 ...and a penny would not be my first choice..better to use a known material I think if you wish to do that. Especially since pennies have not been made out of copper for several decades now. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm trying to forge a branch and I've run into a problem: the stem for my leaves is so thin that it loses heat before I can get it welded to a larger piece of stock. I've stuck a RR track anvil in the fire to cut the distance I have to travel to a minimum and still no dice. As you can see I've burned the stems off of a couple of leaves now trying to get them to weld: The bar stock I'm using for the branch is 3/8 and to get the look I want the stems have been drawn down to 1/8. Any suggestions on how to get these welded without resorting to MIG? I think you should consider brazing with a nickle/silver rod. The filler melts at about 1750 deg and requires little material for strength. Also, after wire wheeling, it nearly blends in with steel, especially if you use a color finish such as Baroque Art Guilders paste. Allstate 11 in 1/16 th dia is normally what I use. Gas Flux Co. also sells ni/sil. Borax is the flux used. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silkhopesmith Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 one thing you can do to make the forge welding easier- since you're drawing down the stem anyway, just leave the end of the stem large. Then it's easier to get to welding heat without burning, it's closer to the size of the main branch, and you can hit it harder during the weld without making it too thin. This is one case where less work equals better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 As I said above..."when ready to weld reach in with stout tongs and pinch the parts...its called a "pinch weld" " If you melt dis-similar metal into the interface then it is a braze....if above 850F...and a penny would not be my first choice..better to use a known material I think if you wish to do that. Ric I was agreeing with you that the pinch weld would be the first thing to try. As for penny welding ( brazing ) I have used hunks of copper pipe. I know that penny are not the choice of what to use, it was just what I was taught to call them. Kind of like Kleenex rather than facial tissue. My bad. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 You can always drill a hole through both parts and rivet them together with some mild steel rod..forge weld will hide and include the rivet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayman Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I think the pinch weld will work best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 FCiron---when did the Canadian penny stop being copper? The English one? Australian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 english one is copper i think... how do you do the penny weld then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 english one is copper i think... how do you do the penny weld then?? Not the decimal currency ones Beth, they are magnetic though. Penny weld is hard soldering/brazing, but you use copper or the "penny" as the filler material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 thanks john so the old penny my daughter dug out of our chicken run today IS copper then..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 thanks john so the old penny my daughter dug out of our chicken run today IS copper then..? Could be Beth, but wouldn't guarantee it, depends on how old it is, majority of 20th century ones are an alloy, far easier to use a bit of cut off copper tube (old water pipe?) or similar. but don't forget the borax, this "weld" will need a flux You could test the penny by annealing it and seeing how it reacts, probably it's more useful as a curio and reminder of the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The braze might leave copper discoloring on the surface, kind of like a pinto pony. Same way with brass. I just fire-welded a taper ended 5/16" rod to a 14 gage leaf the other day. It's on youtube. E-Z Weld helps. Frank Turley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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