Bentiron1946 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Nice anvil! I like it when a fellow can't seem to find a nice old anvil handy just goes and makes one, now that shows some desire to get out, stop whining about not being able to smith and just do it. Some may find fault but you know it beats a rock, and is a whole lot better than doing nothing, so congratulations on a very handsome anvil. I'm sure you're going to have lots of fun with that one for a long time. Happy smithing in 2011! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Boy, we're sure having fun! Try this on: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, right? OK, so if you drop an anvil off the roof of your shop, what is the reaction? The equal and opposite reaction is the earth coming up to meet it! Easier to picture with celestial masses, but it applies to any objects with mass. So the earth and the anvil have a mutual attraction and each moves in direct proportion to the others mass. Maddog started this with his "grain of sand" comment. Where's that guy who wanted his thread to stay on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Now that is something I agree 100% with BentIron! I've run into a bunch of folk that have told me that they would like to take up blacksmithing; but... "It's too expensive" so I tell them about making a starter forge, blower, anvil and tools for under US$25. "But I don't have the fancy tools to make it" So I point out that the "fanciest" tool I used was a 1/4" drill. But they "live in an apartment" so I mention one student of mine who started blacksmithing while living in a dorm room! But they "can't find fuel or steel" so I tell them how to get it locally for free... I've learned to just commiserate with them after the first "but". Far better to help out the ones that WILL SMITH NO MATTER WHAT! Teaching them is *fun* and a lot like tossing gasoline on a lit match! I even maintain a "loaner kit" for students to use while they are assembling their own set up...Recently 2 of my students came back from family visits with anvils they never knew were lurking with their kinfolk and one of those was in LA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If a weld breaks, he knows to replace it with a full penetration weld. I need to call up the forklift repair place in town...my brother in law needs an anvil. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wow, what a lot of interesting replies. I don't know where to start. I need to run along right now, but I will make 2 comments. 1) There is no energy loss in an ideal elastic system. That is why I put "" around the loss words. The problem about energy diverted into bowing is that it rebounds on the wrong time scale to be useful. 2) As you can probably guess, somebody has already done experiments. More details later. Gotta run now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I learned everything I know about anvils from Wile E. Coyote. I know that is possible to drop an Acme anvil off a mesa, have the mesa's edge give way, and you will pass the anvil on the way down, and have it land on top of you. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Boy, we're sure having fun! Try this on: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, right? OK, so if you drop an anvil off the roof of your shop, what is the reaction? The equal and opposite reaction is the earth coming up to meet it! Easier to picture with celestial masses, but it applies to any objects with mass. So the earth and the anvil have a mutual attraction and each moves in direct proportion to the others mass. Maddog started this with his "grain of sand" comment. Where's that guy who wanted his thread to stay on topic? Now Grant,you mentioned celestial masses yet completely failed to take into account the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth upon the dropped anvil during the different repetitions needed to verify the experiment.Those forces need to be properly factored into the equation. Feet? Did someone mention feet?Wind velocity,variances in rotational aerodynamics and drag now need to be factored into the experiment. We need updated pics to include close ups of the added feet so we can do computer generated wind tunnel flow tests. Quickly Laoich23,you`re hindering progress here.We need those pics man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 A Lively New Year conversation had by all. I always thunk, Something to hit, Something to hit with, Something to hit on, Something to hold the thing being hit, A Campfire to warm up wut you want to hit. The Campfire keeps your coffee warm too. Sit Back, Shaddap, Enjoy the ride, the scenery is never the same. Too soon we are dead!! Happy New Year Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ... Will you tell us when the paper comes out? Or can you tell us about the paper now? Is it specifically about smithing and anvils, or is it about something else, and anvils are a good analog? Hi bajajoaquin. The paper is about anvils specifically. The title is "The Physics of Anvils". I am thinking of submitting it to Eden's new online publishing venture. Feet are an interesting concept. How effective is the mass when distributed in feet? It does make the anvil more stable, but is a pound in the foot as good as a pound directly under the hammer. Obviously not, but why? The answer is that off center mass causes the anvil to rotate around its center of mass. It resists the motion by adding to the moment of inertia. By using conservation of angular momentum, rather than conservation of linear momentum (no linear momentum is imparted by generating a rotation about the center of mass), the effectiveness of off center mass may be computed. Here's a preview of the result. The loss in effectiveness of off center mass is proportional to the square of the distance of the mass from the line directly between the hammer path and the center of mass. In other words, double the distance, and the effectiveness of the mass drops by a factor of four. When the distance is zero, obviously the attenuation is zero. A quick comment about rebound efficiency versus forging efficiency. Many smiths think about the two interchangeably. The two kinds of efficiency are not quite equivalent. The first is associated with a target with unit coefficient of restitution. The second is for zero. For most hot forging operations, the coefficient of restitution is 0.1 to 0.2. Thus, the second is more applicable. I am not quite sure, but I seem to recall that the loss in efficiency for small hammer to anvil mass ratios, e, is 1 - 4e and 1 - e respectively. In other words, forging efficiency (energy into target) suffers much less from comparatively small anvil masses than does rebound efficiency (energy into hammer rebound). Finally, a comment for Thomas about forging horns rather than torch cutting them. This is hard, even with a striker! I forged a horn and it was a lot of work. I got a tiny little fishmouth and it cracked down the mouth. It was surprising how deep the crack went even though the lips were quite tiny. Fortunately I was able to cut it out. What a drag. A torch would have probably been easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I learned everything I know about anvils from Wile E. Coyote. I know that is possible to drop an Acme anvil off a mesa, have the mesa's edge give way, and you will pass the anvil on the way down, and have it land on top of you. Those cartoons are really old and were originally produced as silent movies in black and white before being remastered. W E Coyote was actually one of the founders of the mechanical engineering movement,he had a PHD in Cause and Effect. Stone carvings on ancient temples throughout the world have what was originally thought to be carvings of offerings made on stone altars to the canine gods of the underworld who waited below.We now know these actually depicted coyote receiving the gift of the first anvil from the sky gods(collectively known as the ACME) after the gods of thunder and lightning forged it in the heavens. According to learned scholars they dropped it on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Those cartoons are really old and were originally produced as silent movies in black and white before being remastered. W E Coyote was actually one of the founders of the mechanical engineering movement,he had a PHD in Cause and Effect. Stone carvings on ancient temples throughout the world have what was originally thought to be carvings of offerings made on stone altars to the canine gods of the underworld who waited below.We now know these actually depicted coyote receiving the gift of the first anvil from the sky gods(collectively known as the ACME) after the gods of thunder and lightning forged it in the heavens. According to learned scholars they dropped it on him. AH! Enlightenment at last. Now I understand it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 :lol: Bob, you're a real pistol!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Coyote is the trickster god the SW native american version of Loki---so be very careful about what he may try to get you to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Coyote is the trickster god the SW native american version of Loki---so be very careful about what he may try to get you to do! Coyote is one of my totem animals. When I go to my fortune teller instead looking at my palm she prefers to tell my future by reading the bumps on my head. She is such a pessimist,she`s always telling me things like "there are tough times ahead,I see birdies and stars in your future,Beware of gifts from above,Shield your crown chakra" and stuff like that. She keeps reminding me to be sure my life insurance is paid up.I think her husband may be an agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Mainely, Bob, Why fur at is your beloved giving you so many bumps on the head? I thought all yard birds had hard hats. Thomas Powers, I knew of a guy that built an air hammer in his living room, had no where else to build it. Wife was a little PO'ed when the coffee table collapsed from the weight of the "I" beam when he was doing some drilling and from the chips in the carpet but he got it done. A real b a s t a r d to get down from the third floor though. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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