Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Finished fork lift tine anvil... Mostly


Recommended Posts

Should be great! I would have had two layers for the horn. But then I didn't build it :). I like the shelf on the side! I've always wanted one on my anvil. Are you going to put feet on it for lateral stability? I'd love to see how you cut the hardy hole.

Great job!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Should be great! I would have had two layers for the horn. But then I didn't build it :). I like the shelf on the side! I've always wanted one on my anvil. Are you going to put feet on it for lateral stability? I'd love to see how you cut the hardy hole.

Great job!


Yes, feet are in order. As for the hardy hole, there's already the outline 50% drilled, which you can't see in the photo, but I'm planning on knocking it out once all the holes are drilled.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just my 2 cents as a 40+ yr welder/fadricator. If ya haven't done it or tried it. Shut up. Just tired off
folks jumping in with NO understanding of what they are saying.I heard, was told I think. I have welded more anvils
and cast iron farm equip than most here. If ya know what ya are doing or are willing to learn go for it. Ya can't screw up scrap. If ya screw it up it's still only scrap.
Ken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Just my 2 cents as a 40+ yr welder/fadricator. If ya haven't done it or tried it. Shut up. Just tired off
folks jumping in with NO understanding of what they are saying.I heard, was told I think. I have welded more anvils
and cast iron farm equip than most here. If ya know what ya are doing or are willing to learn go for it. Ya can't screw up scrap. If ya screw it ut up t't
s still only scrap.
Ken.


Wow Drag!
Care to get a cup of coffee,sit a spell and tell us why you happen to be just a little grumpier than usual?
Gotta admit,I also have welded a lot of stuff together that folks told me wouldn`t last.That`s how I know 7018 will work on SOME cast iron.
Just tryin` to unravel who you`re aimin` this latest bit of rough cut wisdom at.
Coffee`s over there,I brewed it up fresh today.Help yourself while I fetch another chair. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no advise to give (kinda scared to now :( ), but only will say that in the absence of a commercially manufactured anvil I think its great. Be proud. I have used some pretty odd things as an anvil before I aquired an anvil. Enjoy your anvil and I hope it gives you years and years of faithful service.

Nice job.
Mark<><

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember that when folks reply to something on the net they are not replying to just the fellow who posted but to all the folks who may read that post now and in the future. Giving tips that might help things out for someone's future project is generally a good thing. Otherwise they could have just sent a PM!

I've done many a project that has gone through a Mark I, II, III, IV,... versions. Usually I'll start with an idea, make it up and use it for a while and figure out what I like/dislike about it and then modify it or make up another one and so on down the line. Never felt that anything I've done couldn't be improved on and have welcomed suggestions over the 30 years I've been smithing.

I like that anvil and think it will be a good worker. I also feel that if you were going to make another, laminating it vertically would be a better way---this is from experience stacking boards up to make an anvil base. Stacking vertically seems to waste less energy in using the anvil than stacking horizontally.

There is a professional powerhammer builder that laminates the powerhammer anvils and he does it vertically too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Remember that when folks reply to something on the net they are not replying to just the fellow who posted but to all the folks who may read that post now and in the future. Giving tips that might help things out for someone's future project is generally a good thing. Otherwise they could have just sent a PM!

I've done many a project that has gone through a Mark I, II, III, IV,... versions. Usually I'll start with an idea, make it up and use it for a while and figure out what I like/dislike about it and then modify it or make up another one and so on down the line. Never felt that anything I've done couldn't be improved on and have welcomed suggestions over the 30 years I've been smithing.

I like that anvil and think it will be a good worker. I also feel that if you were going to make another, laminating it vertically would be a better way---this is from experience stacking boards up to make an anvil base. Stacking vertically seems to waste less energy in using the anvil than stacking horizontally.

There is a professional powerhammer builder that laminates the powerhammer anvils and he does it vertically too.


What is it about vertical lamination of steel in an anvil that makes it superior to horizontal lamination in objects of the same mass?Without directions to proof we will never know.
If the OP is interested in hearing recommendations or suggestions I`ll be happy to make a few but generally I like to look at what I like as opposed to what I don`t like about someone else`s project.
As long as something isn`t unsafe then there is no absolute "right or wrong" way to approach something there is only "different".
I know of at least 2 people who have laminated the anvils in a horizontal manner on power hammers and then sold those hammers they built for cash money.This makes them "professional" hammer builders.The hammers are still working and performing to the standards expected by the people who bought them.That make them successful as far as all involved are concerned.
Unless someone can point to evidence that is scientifically accepted and documented,can be repeated effectively in the application we are discussing(meaning can we apply it in the real world) then what does it accomplish to muddy the waters with it?

I can`t stop anyone from posting whatever they choose on this site,nor would I want to.What I can hope for is that we will approach things in a supportive and respectful manner.
"Your baby is ugly" helps no one.If you have a suggestion that you think may help improve the child`s life or the life of the parents and you know this suggestion to be effective thru real world experience then point in that direction,but only after you respectfully ask if the parents are open to your input or have asked for your advice.
Seniority and/or experience doesn`t automatically exempt you from exercising courtesy and respect.There`s a huge difference between constructive criticism and criticism.I am disappointed to see some of the more senior members on this site turning more toward finding fault than in being supportive.
I`ll quote my saintly Mother here "If you have nothing good to say then just say nothing at all".

Rant off.Who wants this soap box?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I've been using anvils made from fork lift spikes for about 5 years now. So I've gone through a couple of variations. Most of them are small and I use them for teaching with rather than day to day work, but since I mostly teach people to forge knives and axes they still get a bit of a beating.

Here are the variants I've used, in order (like Thomas says, I also go through mk I, II, III...)

1st. a piece of spike with two 1" diameter spikes welded to the underside and then driven into a lump of wood. Worked well, but my welding was rubbish back then so the spikes came off after about a dozen students had mullered them. I think if I had done a better welding/seating job then they would be fine, especially if the log were sunk into the ground.
anvil1.jpg

2nd. At the same time I made, I made myself this one for the workshop. It's two bits welded one on top of the other and then angle iron to bolt it down to a log. It worked well enough and I was happy enough with it, but it was a bit dead compared to a solid rectangular anvil (I only bought myself a london patter a couple of years ago) of even half the weight despite being bolted to the log.
anvil2.jpg


3rd. For the second run of teaching anvils, I tried the same thing but on edge. This gave me more height (which meant we could bend things over the edge, since the originals were only 1 1/4 to 2" high). This time I welded angle iron to the bottom and bolted it down. Works very well! much less bouncy than the flat version on the same bit of wood was. I think the mass directly beneath the point of impact/area of force made the difference
anvil4.jpg


4th. This is what I'm now using for my group courses. It's a bit of fork lift measuring 4" square and about 1 1/2" thick, with lengths of box welded to it. The bit of box in the centre has some flat welded to that and is then sunk into a log (so its a stake anvil basically). I heat treated the face of the anvil (heated it in the top of my bottom blast forge to get the fork lift hot enough and quenched in water, then tempered in the oven as per usual). The box is filled with lead but I used sand for the prototype of this and it was pretty much the same in use only lighter ad had a little less rebound. This is by far the best of the lot. it's not much smaller than the anvil I use most in the workshop, which is about 55lb (i use that in preference to my rather than my 120lb london pattern).
anvil3.jpg

Am I going to contribute to the argument about whether vertical or horizontal stripes are best (or most flattering)? No, I'll let others do that. All I will say is that the horizontal anvils I made weren't as good as the vertical ones and the heaviest of the lot was more tiring and noisy to work on than any of the rest and I can only put it down to the construction. Perhaps the layers just flex a little in use and thus create more wasted energy and noise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may be an easy way to understand why the laminations should be vertical;

Think of the floor joists in you house, they are on edge and pretty stiff. If you put them flat they would be pretty spingy. I know that the flat laminations are welded together but the welds are only on the edge, the piece isn't solid through and through.

It's a matter of "Moment of Inertia"(Section Modulus), you could look it up in your engineering handbook of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can spout all kinds of theory and suggestions, but in the end the thing I like to see the most is folks just doing it and not talking about it. After any of us do something, any fool can come along and say we coulda/shoulda done it some other way. I think putting the plates on edge "might" be a little better, but I don't know it would be. I think the OP will be beating iron while others are still talking about it.

One guy told me his doctor said he should cut his blacksmithing in half. I asked him which half he was going to give up.......................talking about it or thinking about it.

"If blacksmithing was illegal, would there be enough evidence to convict you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can tell you(from personal experience) that mating the plates as closely as possible(I used bluing to test the fit) then pressing the laminations together and welding while holding them under pressure has direct influence on the action of a laminated or fabbed tool.
Planning a balanced welding sequence so the welding distorts the mating of those surfaces as little as possible helps too as does running short stringers and peening the weld while it`s still hot.If it won`t effect the heat treatment then normalizing can help too.

There`s some real world info that I learned from some very experienced hands that has helped me produce superior items in the past.When I say superior I mean superior to the way I was doing it before I sought out the advice of people with several decades of experience doing just what I was trying to do.
Those men saw what I was doing and only offered advice after I came to them and respectfully asked their opinion.Once the ice was broken they were always available and very helpful in offering their expertise by way of saying things like "Last time I did that I found.." or "If it were me doing it I`d..."
Never once did one of those gentlemen tell me I was doing something wrong.It was always "You might find you`ll have more success if..." or something to that effect.
Now this happened in places like boatyards,factories and the oilfield and I`m not saying humor didn`t come into play.I once asked after running a particularly fine weld bead "What do you think of that weld?" .The reply was"How far back were you standing when you threw it at the work?". :)
Those men taught me that when you come from a place of respect you get listened to and treated with respect.They also reinforced the fact that respect is a two way street.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is why I keep coming back to this web site. There is always something that will give me a chuckle or make me smile to get me through the day.

Way to go Laoich23. I think your ingenuity is great and you are now able to heat and beat some hot iron. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This may be an easy way to understand why the laminations should be vertical;

Think of the floor joists in you house, they are on edge and pretty stiff. If you put them flat they would be pretty springy. I know that the flat laminations are welded together but the welds are only on the edge, the piece isn't solid through and through.

It's a matter of "Moment of Inertia"(Section Modulus), you could look it up in your engineering handbook of course.


Just a question Pat.You`re talking about floor joists which are something working over an unsupported distance.I understand the theory and that goes along with the idea of bending a flat bar "the easy way or the hard way".
When the work is fully supported along it`s length like this anvil is on a stump does this still hold true?

I can`t help but wonder why the fork lift tines we`re cutting up aren`t being used in a vertically oriented mode rather than on the flat if there`s a real advantage to having them that way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Just a question Pat.You`re talking about floor joists which are something working over an unsupported distance.I understand the theory and that goes along with the idea of bending a flat bar "the easy way or the hard way".
When the work is fully supported along it`s length like this anvil is on a stump does this still hold true?

I can`t help but wonder why the fork lift tines we`re cutting up aren`t being used in a vertically oriented mode rather than on the flat if there`s a real advantage to having them that way.


Well, as bending isn't the problem here, it probably doesn't matter. Actually a gluelam beam might be a better analogy,

GlulamSampleCropped.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I can`t help but wonder why the fork lift tines we`re cutting up aren`t being used in a vertically oriented mode rather than on the flat if there`s a real advantage to having them that way.


Of course they would be stiffer that way, but wouldn't work very well for their intended use. The small vertical dimension is a design requirement that we don't have with anvils.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Of course they would be stiffer that way, but wouldn't work very well for their intended use. The small vertical dimension is a design requirement that we don't have with anvils.


I was thinking about this after I posted and remembered an application where they do just that.The trucks that used to collect the scrap from some of the yards I worked at had loaders like the ones some garbage trucks use to lift dumpsters from the front of the truck and raise it overhead to dump behind the cab.Those loaders do much the same work as a fork lift and have the tines in a vertical position.
I can understand where a fork lift is designed to fit the most common denominator,the shipping pallet.Just wondering why if there is such a difference in strength how come industry hasn`t adapted to the stronger(and supposedly safer) application.
After all we went from kegs to boxes to strapped and wrapped pallets didn`t we?

The glue-lam is an excellent example to illustrate my point Grant.Thanks for bringing that up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lest anyone misinterprets: I think Laoich has built a very nice anvil. I dont envy him having to grind the horn or chip out the hardy hole.

As the impact travels down through stacked layers of plates, the plates will flex slightly and seperate in a manner similar to those desk toys that are a row of metal balls suspended on strings. This effect will dissapate energy. The closer the surfaces mate, and the smaller the spans between the welds, the less this will happen. On a vertical stack, since the blow is traveling downwards, a smaller amount of energy is wasted in lateral flexing. That's theory. In practice it may not amount to much of a muchness. But if you are going to build an anvil you have to choose one or the other. I would have chosen to go vertical for those reasons.

No one has said the anvil is "wrong" and of course, if it works its right. But what's so bad about discussing the design and considering improvements? When someone displays his work in this forum it is right to encourage him regardless of how well or badly it turned out. At the very least he should have the confidence to go on and try again. But it is also appropriate to critique the work. It is a disservice to someone to stop at telling him "You done good" when you could help him do even better. This is primarily an educational site. Also, importantly, these threads serve as reference material. The next person building an anvil out of forklift tines might appreciate learning that there is another approach and what advantages it might have.


Just my 2 cents as a 40+ yr welder/fadricator. If ya haven't done it or tried it. Shut up. (italics added)


Very nice. I can only hope your weather turns warmer soon.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I can understand where a fork lift is designed to fit the most common denominator,the shipping pallet.Just wondering why if there is such a difference in strength how come industry hasn`t adapted to the stronger(and supposedly safer) application.


Because the way they are made is strong enough by an adequate margin. They can make them even wider if needed. In shipping, bulk is important. Often trailers are full long before they are maxed out in weight. When you're stacking pallets, an extra 2-3 inches each can add up to one less pallet high.

Are we far enough off-topic yet?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...