Who blackballed Richard Simmons?

[dkunkler]

I have edited (removed) this text. When two threads were combined, the link no longer worked. The link referred to the post now located two (2) posts up.

[Marksnagel]

Bob,
From what I understand, the discussion about Robert has not disappeared but is under review.

As with Ciladog, he entered the chat and was very outspoken and demanding. There was a young man who was new to blacksmithing and to the site and many of us were trying to answer his questions. Ciladog was so confrontational with Glenn that it was embarrasing. Ciladog provoked Glenn with his rantings, and yes he was ranting, that the entire chat room was disrupted. At one point Ciladog dared Glenn and Moderator42 to kick his butt out.

If I were as new to blacksmithing and this site as the young man was, I would very much consider not returning and even pick a different hobby. It was a very hostile environment for a while. Glenn did better than I would have in maintaining composure but at some point a line had to be drawn.

All will clear in time and things will return to normal, whatever that is.

Hope I cleared things up a little. If not, squint.

Mark<><

[Mainely,Bob]

Thanks for the reply and the clarification.
I try not to be reactionary but when I get the feeling we are all being manipulated and kept in the dark I just can`t help but want answers as to why someone is denying or appears to be denying access to respectful and objective discussion/free speech.
I will remain calm and patient while I hope for a quick and fair resolution.

[Glenn]

I`d like to ask what happened to the discussion going on about Robert(Richard) Simmons and his being banned from IFI. Ciladog asked this same question and his thread was locked.
Are we under martial law here?

As you read ciladog's post and my reply you also read the following

In order to stop posts on this subject, your account meaning ciladog's (and any others) will been flagged for moderation. That flag will be removed as soon as I can reply to the thread.

This leads me to believe you either did not fully understand that I am working on the issue and want no additional posts to deal with until I can complete the review, or you wish to test the system and have your account to be flagged for moderation.

This clearly demonstrates the reason a post is removed from public view while it is being researched, reviewed, and given due consideration.

* A report was made alerting me to the post.
* I took it off line to research, review, and give it due consideration.
* A second post was made to continue the discussion.

* The chat room was interrupted while we were helping a fellow get started in blacksmithing.
* In the chat room explain why the post was taken off line.
* I took the discussion out of the chat room to a private chat.
* The private chat was copied and posted in the main chat room.
* The chat room was totally interrupted again and I was forced to make an immediate decision for the good of the site. The person was removed from the chat room (at his suggestion).

* A reply was made to the second post and it was locked (no additional posting permitted) to allow me to finish the review. A warning was issued that any additional posts would put that author into moderation (their posts would not be made public until such time they were approved by a moderator or admin). This would be done to allow me to finish the review.

* After reading the second post and the warning, a third post was made.
* Now I must take time to merge the second and third posts, edit them so the posts make sense (revise links, delete unnecessary quoting, etc), and be sure they have merged properly.

* Because this is a topic that keeps coming back, an explanation must be made as to what has happened to post number one, what has happened to post number two, and why posts number two and post number three were merged and moved to a different sub-section of the site. They were moved to the same sub-section as the original post number one so they can be merged later.

Are we under martial law here?

Thank you for the suggestion, I will take it under advisement.
do I have to say (grin)?


Back to research and review on the original thread. When the review is concluded, I will add merged posts number two and post number three to the original post. This way the entire discussion will be in one place.


Mailely Bob's account has NOT been flagged for moderation.

[ianinsa]

On a lighter note!
'Mailely Bob's account has NOT been flagged for moderation' if it looks vaugely like he might attack you?
Hit him back first!!!!!
Glen, I'm impressed at your ability to lit it roll like duck's water off your back. Most including myself would have just 'hit delete' on the profile and never bother to let them back. End of story/problem.
No offence to Mainely Bob of course
Ian

[thecelticforge]

Martial Law for Blacksmiths: I keep trying to picture what we would look like in uniforms...

[ThomasPowers]

Well basically forums are *owned* by someone and that someone can make the rules for *their* site as they see fit.

If anyone doesn't like how that is they are perfectly free to create their own forums with their own rules.

There are several things I have disagreed with on this site before; but I support the right of the owner to do as he will.

Totally un-moderated sites tend to slide downhill into bullying, ranting, flamewars and excessive off topic material.

You may notice that mentions of other blacksmithing sites on these forums are not purged; which I feel is an indication that the
owner is serene enough to acknowledge that no one site can be all things to all people and good information does not have to be duplicated all over the place.

Thomas Powers

[chyancarrek]

I second that Thomas. Glenn's house - Glenn's rules . . .

If that doesn't sit well with some of you, try this at the next social gathering you're invited to: Start a loud and disruptive political argument with one of the guests - when the host asks you to stop, try and drum up support by shouting and berating folks about it in the middle of the room . . . come back and let us know how that worked out for ya.
Give it some thought - A little social maturity goes a long way . . .


I've been knocking around forum sites since they were called BBS's (remember that o' so lovely modem squeal as it was connecting?) and while a lot of things have changed since then, one thing hasn't and that's individuals who want to turn things about to reflect their own POV no matter how disconnected from the intended subject matter of the site. The only solution to that is good admin moderation. IFI really is one of better run sites I've been on. It's had it's share of problems both technical and managerial but it's always come back the stronger for it's missteps. The only thing that's surprised me in this whole sad affair is that it didn't get nipped in the bud from the git-go.

Thanks for all your hard work Glenn and team - I hope you guys can get this squared-away without too much more trouble!

[Glenn]

The thread has been off line less than 24 hours.

The thread boils down to three separate issues.

The first issue is a rating system. Several members are of the opinion that the rating system does not seem to work for this site. This may be in part due to abuse of the system.

The second issue is Robert Simmons being banned from IForgeIron and a effort being made in public to lift the ban.
Robert is not here to defend himself so let us stay within the confines of this thread. Before the LaBelle Nail thread Rober's warn level had reached a 90%. The site guide lines have always been No fussing, No cussing, and No personal attacks, please stay away from discussions of religion and politics. (the short version)

Remember the thread, LaBelle Nail Mfg. Closes After 158 Years where Richard expressed his political views.

It was not Robert's political views, but adding the political views on top of a 90% warning level that precipitated his first being moderated and then his posting privileges being denied . The decision was made following the site guide lines.

The third issue is this thread being started at 11 am and taken off line at 4 pm or so yesterday, about 5 hours. It has been 24 hours and the thread has been restarted twice in the forum and carried over to the chat room. ALL THIS WAS DONE IN FULL PUBLIC VIEW. Not one email or personal message was sent to the site admins on the subject. All the posts etc have now been gathered together and merged into this one post and that thread is being put back on line and available for the public to view.. Nothing has been removed, edited, etc, it is all right there.

It is standard site procedure to take issues off line for review. This allows everyone to step back and take a deep breath, research, review, and take some time to digest the issue. Come back, and review the material one more time before making a final decision. What ever decision is made it must be right 6 months from now, a year from now, and be the best decision for good of the site and the blacksmithing community. That decision is based on the information at hand. Later if additional information is brought to the table, it may be important enough to prompt another review of the situation.


After reviewing this thread, and other materials available to me, the site guide lines were not followed. It was not Robert's political views, but adding the political views on top of a 90% warning level that precipitated the action taken.

The site guide lines are published on the site, and have been in place since day one. They do not restrict the discussion of blacksmithing, but keep IForgeIron a family forum that is available to all that want to learn about the craft.

[pkrankow]

Maybe this is the wrong place, but it is related. I am having a hard time finding the published rules and guidelines.



Seems to be a partial set, but the referenced links are broken.

I know it is a bit of a bother, but posting a permanent link to the rules and guidelines may be of some help. Maybe have it referenced from several places people are likely to look such as the page footer and the help files too.

Phil

[Glenn]

Site Guide lines May 2005 click here

Site guidelines November 2007 click here

Site Guide lines March 2008 click here


It would seem other links are broken and need re-established.

Guide lines (the simple version) No fussing, No cussing, No personal attacks, and please stay away from discussions of religion and politics.

A longer version
The Blacksmith Forum is a family site. The standards are set high. You are expected to conduct yourselves as gentlemen and ladies. Your posts are to be civil, polite, and respectful of others and their opinions. There are to be no "bad words", no personal attacks, and it should be able to be read from the front of the church on Sunday with no one being embarrassed.

The site is a way to exchange information. You may question or comment as you wish within these guide lines. Additional guide lines may be added as needed, and additions made to the rules of registration, and any disclaimers as needed.

I charge each of you with assisting me in keeping the site a family site, a clean site, and operating within the guidelines set forth. I do not expect any problems, but if they were to occur, please contact me directly with your concerns.

-----------------------------------------------------

None of this keeps anyone from discussing blacksmithing.
I am still trying to re-establish the link to the article I wrote on guide lines.

[Mainely,Bob]

I`m going to chalk all this up to mistakes and mis-steps due to lack of timely and clear communication.
When I came upon this post it got me thinking about how things have been going on this forum.
Now I find there has been once again a breakdown of communication even between admin people and can`t help but shake my head in amazement.Obviously the frustration level is elevated and the continuing glitches only compound things.
BTW Glen,I wrote you a rather long e-mail trying to explain myself but seeing as how you STILL are not able to receive e-mails(according to the error message when I tried to send it)you had no way of knowing if I was testing the system or not.
Perhaps while you are fixing the link to the guidelines we are all supposed to follow you could also look into why it seems to be impossible to contact you?If you fix that then maybe members(such as myself) won`t have to resort to reposting locked threads to get your attention.

As for moderator 42,if you don`t bait the bears they won`t be so apt to try and maul you.IMO you are at least partly responsible for Ciladog`s overreactions.
I try to never ask others to do something I am unwilling or unable to do myself.I also never say anything in print or on the phone that I would be unwilling to say or repeat if the person were standing here in front of me.Those,gentlemen,are good and proper guidelines that have served both myself and others very well in the real world.
I have no doubt they serve as well in the digital world too.

[Fosterob]

I just read the guidelines (2008) and it said on posting photos they should first be posted in the gallery and the gallery automatically resizes and makes a thumbnail that goes in the post? Is this working or is nobody doing this and is that why some of the photos are not sized to fit the screen? I personally have not tried this way because I did not know to do it that way, I will try on my next photos. Sorry if this is off of the Simmons topic. Keep up the good work Glenn.
Rob

[Glenn]

I have once more looked to see if I can find why my PM is not working. I see no reason for the failure, but will continue the search for an answer.
Bob, check your email.

[Guest]

<snip>
As for moderator 42,if you don`t bait the bears they won`t be so apt to try and maul you.IMO you are at least partly responsible for Ciladog`s overreactions.<snip>.

Ciladog had his issues before his chat room tantrum. I only commented in the chat after he crossed the line for the third time if you will remember, or can you since I did not see you in that chat? Perhaps you are ciladog also?

Unlike Glenn, I am not worried about appearing to be a nice guy here. My only purpose for being at IFI is keeping this place functioning. When I see people that only cry about injustice or they demand we do more for them, like repair something faster, over and over again, it gets me going, have YOU ever done a thing to help here?

As for Ciladog, I will nuke him or anyone that wants to start a fight in the forum or the chat, with no loss of sleep to myself. You have a right to speak your peace, but you seem a bit one sided about that if one of us tries to say something.

As for baiting bears, Visitors to IFI should remember that all the staff have teeth, so who is really the bear.

[Mainely,Bob]

Two things;
First you weren`t paying attention when you read my previous post so let me sum it up short and simple,"to get respect you must act out of respect.Act in a provocative manner and you suffer the results of your actions".
Second;your post and reply here to ciladog`s"da" post(as you say I was not in the chat)is the sole source of my information and was IMO snide and provocative.it also shows that even you didn`t know what Glen was up to and that he had deleted parts of the post.If the admins don`t know what is going on then how can we be expected to know?
I am not ciladog and did not make any of the mistakes he made yet here you are acting snide and provocative to me as well.I would suggest you reread the first part of my post and take heed of Glen`s posted guidelines.
I`m assuming "No fussin" applies to us all,admin and member alike.We ALL need to be nice guys and respectful of each other in order to get along in this common sandbox.
Glen is a true leader and a gentleman.You would do well to follow his example in your dealings with members,Leave the "Nuke" at the curb where it belongs.If you don`t get the signal from your leader then you don`t open fire,simple as that.You seem to be a loose cannon who doesn`t understand or disregards the rules of engagement.That kind of attitude endangers everyone around you whether you realize it or not.
BTW-I am not a visitor nor am I ciladog,I am Mainely,Bob "A Regular Member".Look to the upper left corner of any of my posts and you can plainly see that.
We all have teeth,some of us even know when it is and is not appropriate to show them.The key word here is SOME.
Enough sparring for one night.

[Glenn]

Enough. The thread is closed.

Let us get back to blacksmithing.