Who blackballed Richard Simmons?

[ciladog]

In the interest of fairness, I have to write this post. And if you do not speak up about injustice, who will speak up for you if it happens to you?

I am very surprised and disappointed in the administration of this website to learn that Richard Simmons was suspended from IFI. Something smells and it isn’t propane!

Remember the thread, LaBelle Nail Mfg. Closes After 158 Years where Richard expressed his political views. He was not the only one to do so but he is the one that got suspended. Considering the results of the American election yesterday, he is not that far out of the mainstream thought. But this is not about politics, it’s about fairness.

I went and reviewed every one of Robert’s posts and not one of them attacked anyone personally, he did not use foul langue, or post any off color subjects. Most of his posts were looking for information which is what I thought this website is for. And yet he is gone with a reputation of -12.

What is very interesting about his reputation is that someone went back through his posts and blackballed him on posts that are completely innocuous after the LaBelle posts. And I suspect that Glenn could find out who that was. That is who should be suspended not Robert. Even after his political rants in the LaBell thread, his reputation was up to +15. Check out these threads and see what I mean.

Robert's Black Iron Pipe Burner -16

Propane Burner Flares in the Forge? -3

Gloves ? Glasses? Do people actually skip them? -10

Reinstate Robert Simmons!!!!!

What do you think?

[Timothy Miller]

It is common for people on this site to use the rating system to harm other members reputation on subjects where it is undeserved. Some one is determined to keep me in the negative no matter what I do. He did cross the line on the political discussion the rules are clear on this topic. This site is about blacksmithing not politics. I believe he can get reinstated after a period of time. Its best to just leave it alone because many good people deeply disagree. :)

[ciladog]

How many times have I read that this is a community that cares about each other? If that is true, then vindictive ratings need to stop. Ratings should be based on the content of the post about the subject matter on blacksmithing. Or, they should be eliminated.

Richard was not the only one to cross the line in that thread.

Since when does a disagreement in opinion equate to a bad post that deserves a negative rating anyway?

[Fosterob]

I enjoyed Roberts posts, they made you think. He did not have a lot of blacksmithing experience but has a desire to learn. He approached things a little more annalyticly than most people seem to and I think that his ability to think through something in advance and talk about what is theoreticly going to happen made some people think he was a know it all. It is good to see things in a different way and want to improve on something. If people do not want to improve and just do things the way the have always been done..... well Uri Hofi may have some thoughts on that. I am sure that the admins will do what is right for the good of the site.
Rob

[monstermetal]

You know I agree... I find that I often learn the most from people I dont agree with (although I must say as far as politics go I would have sided with Robert) Im sure its tough for the overseers of the site to make decisions and keep the good of the order in tact. But my feeling is it takes everyone... even people who get under your skin... to balance the views... If he didn't do anything vile or wildly profane Id side with his reinstatement...

[Sask Mark]

Personally, I think it's ridiculous how some people automatically attach negative ratings to specific members. Case in point is Youngdylan. He posted his thoughts on a subject (non-political) when he first joined. Since then he has had so many negative scores that he sits at -73. Every post he made was getting negative scores, even if it was helpful or complimentary. He produces some amazing work and has a lot of tool knowledge, so he is an excellent asset to the site.

Some members who continually give members negative ratings for no reason really have to drop this playground grudge mentality and grow up. The post should be rated based on its merit and validity, not on who posted it.

[Mainely,Bob]

I thought we all agreed that the rating BS was just that.It was an ill conceived joke that came with the marginal new software,a grave mistake that has turned into bad comedy.
Does anybody really pay any attention to that tripe? I sincerely hope not!

Some of the most interesting contributors and folks who have excellent info to put out and apply to the work have abysmal ratings solely based on one or more people`s agendas and vindictiveness.Take the Good Captain(Dave Hyde) and Southshore for example.

Robert really needs to be here IMO for both his growth and ours.The "powers that be" need to focus more on what benefits the greater community and a whole lot less on being G rated and politically correct.Oh,and fixing the perpetual bugs would also be a good place to expend energy after close to a year with still no BPs or restored photos in old posts,etc.Just yesterday I couldn`t access the site because the message said the webmaster hadn`t configured or updated something and I needed to contact him.Is Glenn even capable of receiving e-mails now?Has that glitch even been fixed?

All this coming from a person who has already been spanked for his political views and slapped around as a new member only to settle in and learn to bite his tongue while continuing to skate close to the edge and still post what he feels.I ain`t no genius but I feel I got the picture pretty well.
Banning Larry was a mistake that was overturned this is yet another mistake which needs to be corrected.
Richard`s a little high strung but a good guy who mis-spoke,let him come back and learn along with the rest of us.

Pretty soon if this keeps up all you`ll hear is BAAA-BAAA as only compliant sheep will be left to post and the rest of us will have migrated to greener pastures.
We are blacksmiths after all.

PS-I really want ROBERT not Richard back.Richard can stay at the aerobics center as far as I`m concerned. <_<

[Sask Mark]

Btw, I totally support keeping RICHARD Simmons banned. I'm not into spandex-clad aerobics.

The banning of ROBERT Simmons is a whole other story...

[JNewman]

Who says he is banned? I just looked at his profile, when a member is banned it says so below their name.

[ciladog]

All I can tell you is that I tried to PM him and ended up with a message from a third party member of IFI that said he was unable to reply because he was suspended. And after reading his recent status updates, he was unable to post without administrative approval. I assume he is suspended. Is that not correct?

[arftist]

I was opposed to ratings and said so when they first came up for discussian.

I didn't want Robert banned and said so from the beginning. He asked a lot of good questions, made everybody think. Maybe something happened behind the scenes that we don't know about. Anyone try to e-mail him? I don't think he would be very receptive if I tried.

[Marksnagel]

Being fairly new to blacksmithing and to this site I feel that I need to give my two and a half cents worth.

I feel that Robert should be re-instated. I added him as a friend and will not turn my back on a friend due to (percieved) popular opinion.

I won't say if he was right or wrong in the content of his post because that would just be my opinion and we know what opinions are like. I also know that rules are made to be followed. Anyone here ever break a rule?

Those that don't like his replies to the post need to get a life. If you don't like what he wrote, cease reading what he writes. Just skip over his post until you find one you like. When you get a magazine and there is an article you arent interested in or don't agree with, do you tear out those pages? No, you turn the page.

If you don't like this reply then feel free to give me a negative number. I'll still sleep through the night and thank the Lord when I wake up, go outside and light my forge.

Mark<><

[pkrankow]

Suspended means he will be allowed back. It is temporary, and I am sure has a pre-arranged time to it.

My only beef was he would make blanket statements after trying one thing, when some of us are using exactly what he didn't like without problems. I also understand that living on a mountain top can change how forges act.

I am not a fan of the reputation/rating system. It has already driven at least one valued member away.



I also understand and (generally) appreciate the forum owner's opinion that politics can be discussed elsewhere, and this web forum is about metal work.

Phil

[Timothy Miller]

Unicorn forge had "mysteriously" gotten a positive rating in the 70's only days after the rating system came in to existence. Even higher than Grant Sarver . There was more going on there I suspect.

[MattBower]

I have (briefly) communicated directly with Robert, by email, since he was banned. (And yes, he says he is indeed banned. One of his emails to me seems to suggest that he can't even read IFI.) I asked Robert if he'd be interested in returning if he were allowed to do so, with the idea that if he wanted to come back I might take up the cause. He indicated to me that he wasn't interested. His exact words were, "They don't want me even reading IFI so I won't impose on them." But he could've changed his mind since then. I know ciladog also has Robert's email.

I don't much care about the user rating thing. I don't think those things deserve to be taken seriously in the first place. Even if they did, Robert had a bad rating before the LaBelle Nail thread ever got started. I know that for a fact, because I was going through and giving some of his old posts "plus" ratings just to give him a boost. I felt a little badly to see a total newb getting hammered so badly. But Robert has a tendency to rub people the wrong way, and it wouldn't be fair to assume that people who rated him negatively were persecuting him for his political views. I think a lot of the negative reaction was less about what he said than about how he said it. (My politics aren't really very different from Robert's in many respects, from what I can tell, and I certainly had my problems with him.)

Having said all that, I would vote for reinstatement, too. I honestly do not think he'll be interested, and if he is reinstated I wonder whether it'll work out in the long run. He seems to wear his heart on his sleeve. But I'm a big believer in second chances.

[youngdylan]

Well I'm someone who's given Robert some negatives but I certainly don't think he should be banned even if his political views are just about as opposite to mine as it is possible to be. That said I don't loose sleep about it one way or the other, I've no problem with people talking politics, we live in a political world and it affects just about all of us most of time. Now as for religious guff; that's a whole different thing.

Some of the most interesting contributors and folks who have excellent info to put out and apply to the work have abysmal ratings solely based on one or more people`s agendas and vindictiveness.Take the Good Captain(Dave Hyde) and Southshore for example.

Unicorn forge had "mysteriously" gotten a positive rating in the 70's only days after the rating system came in to existence. Even higher than Grant Sarver . There was more going on there I suspect.

Yeah the rating system is rum old thing but you've got to have a thick skin to post in public. I did seem to notice at one that every one of Roberts posts seemed to get a + so I guess someone agreed with what he said or he was +ing himself. Unicorns stands at a bit over+200 and was way more than that at one point, go figure.

[MattBower]

Just for the record, Richard Simmons is the flamboyantly effeminate former talk show host and weight loss guru. Robert Simmons is a guy who used to post on IFI.

[JNewman]

I have not seen anything he posted that would warrant permanent banning without warning, so if there is a ban based in his postings I agree it should be lifted. Perhaps he was temporarily suspended to give Glenn time to sort things out but I still question whether he is banned. How could he post on his profile that he is banned if he is banned????

Glenn seems to be a pretty level headed guy. I cannot see him banning someone for possibly holding different political views. Not that I know or care what Glenn's political views are, because this is a blacksmithing site. If there is a banning I suspect it is self-imposed.

[Mainely,Bob]

Btw, I totally support keeping RICHARD Simmons banned. I'm not into spandex-clad aerobics.

The banning of ROBERT Simmons is a whole other story...

But I have all or Richard`s VHS tapes.
You got something against sweatin` to the oldies?

Thanks,now I can`t that fuzzy headed skinny fitness freak out of my head.How`d I slip up like that?
Maybe it`s not too late to edit.

[Thomas Dean]

I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would give another a rating, be it positive or negative. Just ignore their posts if they bother you. In the past life of IFI you could 'block' the post of whoever you wanted. When you pulled up a thread that your 'blocked' person and posted to you could read everything except what they had posted. I did this with on memeber a few yrs back. The offending (to me) member was a 12 year old kid that knew everything possible about blacksmithing....or any other subject. I just simple 'blocked' his post, helped keep my blood pressure down and it normally runs at 118/76 with a heart rate around 57. :P

[Mainely,Bob]

I am not a fan of the reputation/rating system. It has already driven at least one valued member away.
http://www.iforgeiro...993#entry153993
Phil

The unicorn returned under another name and his leaving only went as far as he stopped posting.I have reason to believe he still read posts and participated from the sidelines thru the nefarious rating system even before oldguy appeared.

[ciladog]

da

[Guest]

da

Your post is incomplete, could you please explain what you are looking for? thread about what? perhaps it was relocated to the subject to which it pertained?

Or I could have replied to your post with one word also. like... Somewhere.. while accurate, it would not help you any better than your strange mode of posting.

[Glenn]

This is the deleted material from the above post

It seems that Glenn or the administration of this web site deleted the thread on reinstating Robert Simmons. Why? I got no email or PM as to why. That is just total BS. If I don’t get an explanation, I want all my content deleted from this site.

I took the Robert Simmons thread off line to I could read the material posted. I will then review the material, the comments, the questions, etc and make a decision. This is standard procedure for IForgeIron. It allows me to catch up and give the thread / posts the attention they deserve without additional material being posted.

You got the same answer when you joined the chat room tonight and ask the same question.

In order to stop posts on this subject, your account (and any others) will been flagged for moderation. That flag will be removed as soon as I can reply to the thread. Any comments should be made on that thread, rather than starting another new thread, and making the moderators or admins go back and try to reassemble the material under one location.

This thread is closed. It will be moved to the Robert Simmons thread in due time.

[Mainely,Bob]

I`d like to ask what happened to the discussion going on about Robert(Richard) Simmons and his being banned from IFI.
There was a rather lively discussion going on and now it suddenly has disappeared and cannot be found even with the search feature.
Ciladog asked this same question and his thread was locked.
Are we under martial law here?