Handles

[Cross Pein]

I have read on this forum that hickory is good for making hammer handles.
A large pignut hickory in my back yard is dying due to rot at the base. A tree guy is supposed to take it down later in the week.
I may ask for a couple slices for hammer handles. I will saw them up for blanks that can be shaped for handles.

Archiphile is excellent with hand held planes and shaves and I figure I can learn a thing or two from him.

My question pertains to the size to saw them to. What do you folks think would be good dimensions for blanks? (I ask because I may be able to share with you guys.) Also, should I cut them up after seasoning, or dry them after cutting?

I did not think of this before he priced the job, so I hope he is willing to share! I also hope he gets here before hurricane Earl - this thing is way too close to the house!

Let me know your opinions.

Thanks,

Bill

[bigfootnampa]

I am pretty sure that your tree guy will be glad to leave you whatever lengths you want but he is unlikely to be prepared to saw them into slabs. It would be better if you rive them into wedges and then slabs anyway. If you lack a good froe this is a good excuse to make one. Froe, hammer and some "gluts" (wooden wedges) are all that you really need. I do find a use for my carving hatchet too (often as a sort of short froe or handled wedge). MOST important is to have him save you the straight grained branchless sections only. Don't bother with anything that has knots, branches, lumps, curves or other imperfections... some of it can be used but it just isn't worth your time. Have him cut log sections around 8" longer than the handles you will be making from it... or just whatever the straight part is in length. I make lots of different handles and so just preserve as much length as I can mostly. You can always cut lengths down and the extra makes a good handle to clamp in the shaving horse when shaping the handles. It does take more work to split longer lengths so if you are making all short handles don't overdo the overlength bit too much. Just for instance I am currently on the lookout for some pretty long stuff because I want to get 10' to 13' poles for boat hooks and fish spears. I use some two handed handles on scythes and some 5 footers for litter spikes and full size hoes. I use some around a foot long for hammer handles and some only 6" to 7" for trowel handles. Small diameter sections are okay for carving knives and awls. Branch wood is fine for the smaller shorter handles I like anything over about 5" or 6" in diameter. Bowstaves need to be about 6' long. Hope this helps you. Clay

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

If it was me I would just have him drop the tree, and have him deal with just the brush.

One thing that could happen is that the logs you keep may not make the best handles due to grain, splitting, checking, etc. Expect some loss due to this, and goof ups.

I generally hear 1 year dry time for every inch of thickness.

Lumber companies slab, then dry. They use a kiln to speed the process up. Even so it requires some technique to avoid splitting, twisting, and other undesirable affects.

I would think 1.5" slabs would work for drying, while leaving enough to shape later.

Good luck with the hurricane.

[Job R]

I have read on this forum that hickory is good for making hammer handles.
A large pignut hickory in my back yard is dying due to rot at the base. A tree guy is supposed to take it down later in the week.
I may ask for a couple slices for hammer handles. I will saw them up for blanks that can be shaped for handles.

Archiphile is excellent with hand held planes and shaves and I figure I can learn a thing or two from him.

My question pertains to the size to saw them to. What do you folks think would be good dimensions for blanks? (I ask because I may be able to share with you guys.) Also, should I cut them up after seasoning, or dry them after cutting?

I did not think of this before he priced the job, so I hope he is willing to share! I also hope he gets here before hurricane Earl - this thing is way too close to the house!

Let me know your opinions.

Thanks,

Bill

i would not saw them into blanks, but rather split banks with an ax and shingle fro. this would give you a handle which fallows the grain much closer than if sawn.
so far as dimensions go i dont have much advice, wish i had some hickory handy out here in cali.

[MattBower]

It's common to seal the ends of fresh cut wood with wax, latex paint or wood glue, and leave it while the wood dries. Helps prevent checking. I don't know if that's really necessary if you slab it and put it up to dry right away. But it probably wouldn't hurt.

[Job R]

It's common to seal the ends of fresh cut wood with wax, latex paint or wood glue, and leave it while the wood dries. Helps prevent checking. I don't know if that's really necessary if you slab it and put it up to dry right away. But it probably wouldn't hurt.

have never heard this, makes since. good bit of info.

[bigfootnampa]

I forgot to mention on the greenwood issue that I like to rive it green and then I shave it as I get time and have projects with a need. You could seal the ends it won't hurt but I am usually too busy and I have plenty of wood. I like to fit my tool into the handles (talking tanged tools here) hot and then let the handle dry and shrink tighter. You could lose one now and then this way but it is so rare for me that it is no issue. For hammer and axe heads I will rough out the handles and then dry it before final fitting. A car dash makes a very fast kiln on a summer day. The microwave is great for the ones small enough to fit in it. Sometimes I will bake them a bit on the edge of my forge fire if I get in a hurry and the weather is cool. I have been known to sneak some into the kitchen oven at times when SWMBO was away. Split up right away is best but logs will wait a long time if I am busy. The really great woods like osage orange and hickory are tough and durable. I also like pecan and mulberry and some locust. Oak is mostly good but some is crumbly (I think post oak?). Ash is nice but rare now that the trees are all dying. If I really got desperate I could fire up my infra red lamp but that hasn't happened yet.

[pkrankow]

i would not saw them into blanks, but rather split banks with an ax and shingle fro. this would give you a handle which fallows the grain much closer than if sawn.
so far as dimensions go i dont have much advice, wish i had some hickory handy out here in cali.

Splitting also helps control grain direction in the finished part, and helps eliminate certain types of checking because the weak areas split easier. You just need firewood size pieces for hand hammers. Long handle hammers require longer pieces and will be fun to split with wedges (I have split 10 ft long 6 inch diameter logs lenthwise before using 5 wedges, a maul and a saw)

It's common to seal the ends of fresh cut wood with wax, latex paint or wood glue, and leave it while the wood dries. Helps prevent checking. I don't know if that's really necessary if you slab it and put it up to dry right away. But it probably wouldn't hurt.

I use shellac, coat the whole thing with 1 coat, 2 on the end grain. Takes 2-3 years to season but will often have no checking or cracking when it is ready. 1 inch "planks" would season quicker.

Phil

[ThomasPowers]

Some folks are extolling the virtue of slab handles rather than the rounder ones that are more traditional in these parts.

However getting cut in fireplace log size, then de-barking and selecting for straightest grain and then splitting out radial sections and then splitting the radial sections into over sized blanks is what I do.

I also collect thrown out candles and have a coffee can of candle wax I heat up (*CAREFULLY* OUTSIDE) and dip the ends of the blanks in the very hot wax and then throw them up on top the shelves in the smithy to dry.

I think that one of the Woodwrights books or perhaps Drew Langsner's book on working wood gives instructions on this. (might check Foxfire as well)

Split rather than sawn makes for a much stronger handle as there is NO grain runout!

[son_of_bluegrass]

There has been a lot of good advice given above.
For my two cents, air dried wood makes better hammer handles than kiln dried (or any similar method that gets above around 140 degrees F). Excess heat changes the structure of some of the components of the wood and thus changes the characteristics of the final handle.
It is best to at least split the log in half (through the pith [the center]) first. That will relieve a lot of the stress as the log dries and prevent or reduce major cracking. Splitting (or sawing if the grain is straight enough and you follow the grain) into oversized slabs will help more and decrease the drying time. Expect to loose 1/4 to 1/2 inch total from the sides due to shrinking and shaping. So leave the blanks 1/2 to 3/4 inch larger in cross section than the final dimensions you want for the handles (I like 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 inch square cross section or that by 1 to 1 3/8 inch before drying). You will loose some from the ends due to checking so leave each 2 to 4 inches longer than you want to end up with if you seal the ends or 4 to 6 inches long if you don't. They make commercially available end grain sealers or you can use thinned PVA (yellow, carpenter's) wood glue (thin with water to a paint like consistency) or wax. Oil based paint is better than latex but paint is worse than wax or glue.
If you slab into handle sizes pieces expect to wait 2 years before working if you air dry. If you don't slab and are drying half logs it depends on the size of the log. If the log was 6 inches diameter (3 inches across for a half log) give it at least 3 years. Anything bigger wait 4 years. I'd save anything 6 inches diameter and larger for handles and split down to under a 3 year wait. Drying times vary depending on temperature and humidity. Warmer temps and lower humidity speed the drying process. Faster drying promotes checking.
I generally get 6 handles from a 6 inch diameter log. I split in half then each half into thirds. For larger logs I split to about that size. When I go to shape the handle I remove the sap wood plus a little.
If you air dry, you want to have air circulation around each piece. That is true if you kiln dry, but if you put on piece at a time in an oven it isn't an issue.
You can either debark or not. Most insects that will attack the wood prefer bark and sap wood. Debarked logs will dry a bit faster. Those are pluses for debarking. Debarked logs are more prone to checking (small cracks at the end) and splitting.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
ron

[Cross Pein]

Thanks - Sounds like a lot of good information. I would have never thought of sealing the end grain on my own.
I guess I will split the logs in the lengths he leaves them and put them into the barn. I will play with some in the oven, but I suspect most will wait it out until it drys. I suspect that he will be happy to leave it behind, but I don't think it will get me any break on the cost. He stopped by today and marked the 4 trees he is taking down. I hope he gets back before Earl.

Here is a picture of the tree I took today. That is my humble smithy behind it.
Thanks for all the advice, I guess it will be a while before I can offer any to IFI members.

Bill

Now to learn about froes!

[Bentiron1946]

That looks like a life time supply of hickory for you to make all kinds of handles from, WOW! I bet you could even get an anvil stump out of that thing plus a swage block. :blink:

[Fosterob]

Are those trees dead? If so they may be partially dry already. I wish we had those out here, mostly oak and eucalyptus where I am.
Rob

[pkrankow]

I just had 3 massive maples removed from close to my house. As much as I miss the stately trees, it was an easy decision between property damage or personal injury and the trees. All three were shedding limbs over 4 inch in diameter...on beautiful clear days. Last thing I needed to worry about was a tree in my living room, dining room or attached garage!

Last thing you need is a tree in your workshop unexpectedly

Don't forget to replace the tree with another tree.

Phil

[Bentiron1946]

In my yard the tallest tree is a mesquite about 20' tall and it isn't rooted all that deep, nothing is. I have tried a time or two to make a handle out of mesquite but it isn't that dense of a wood, makes good charcoal though. Hickory slabs at the specialty hardwood stores cost you a mint, that is you need to rob the mint to afford it in a thickness suitable for a handle and here you are just cutting it down. I know it needs to come down but even to have a branch from it would be so neat and you all back there use that kind of tree for firewood, I mean you burn it up all the time and we out here pay for it by the board foot and you burn it, turn it ash or have it taken to a landfill. OH! the agony! :(

[Cross Pein]

My anvil is mounted on red oak now, and that is a bear to move outside when I forge. But I did ask for a 30" long piece of the trunk to mount my leg vice on.

Fosterob, the tree is not dead - although as you can see several of the branches have died in the last couple of years. The rot at the bottom is a lot worse than I thought. My wife had Hosta planted around the base and the extent of the rot was not evident to me until she moved the hosta out.

Phil, that tree is the only shade in my back yard from about 8am until 4pm at this time of year. So you bet I will be replacing it. I was reading the other day that they have cross-bred the American chestnut with a blight resistant strain from China and they now have blight resistant trees that have the characteristics of the American Chestnut that can survive here. I would like to get a few of those if I can. I would also like to find Butternut and give that a try. I probably won't live long enough to enjoy them, but the land has been in the family since 1924, so I hope the next generation gets some good shade!

Bill

[ThomasPowers]

I used to have a "travel stump" that was made from a hollow log---lot lighter to move for a demo!


AZ---do they have an pecan farms in AZ like they do in NM? Pecan and Hickory are considered pretty much the same wood when grading...

When I first started drying my own wood I thought the 1 year per inch was a crazy wait---now I have some stuff that's been drying 20 years per inch and quite understand the fore-stock pieces of walnut I picked up at a barn sale that had been drying since the 1930's...

(My oldest air dried wood has been drying for over 200 years---from a colonial structure the historical society tried to save back when I lived on the east coast---we lost to developers; but I did get one piece of oak beam when they razed it.)

[thingmaker3]

This thread reminds me of Alex Bealer's Old Ways of Working Wood. An excellent book.

We'll be taking down some maples soon, so I think I need to read it again. (And to bookmark this thread!)

[bigfootnampa]

I used to have a "travel stump" that was made from a hollow log---lot lighter to move for a demo!


AZ---do they have an pecan farms in AZ like they do in NM? Pecan and Hickory are considered pretty much the same wood when grading...

When I first started drying my own wood I thought the 1 year per inch was a crazy wait---now I have some stuff that's been drying 20 years per inch and quite understand the fore-stock pieces of walnut I picked up at a barn sale that had been drying since the 1930's...

(My oldest air dried wood has been drying for over 200 years---from a colonial structure the historical society tried to save back when I lived on the east coast---we lost to developers; but I did get one piece of oak beam when they razed it.)

Yeah it used to frustrate me when they tried to sell me "pecan/hickory"... at first I thought that must be some new kind of wood that I didn't know... now I get it... it's a name they made up because they couldn't tell the difference. I found out this is a common appellation in the lumber industry.

[CTBlacksmith]

I have a few handle blanks of hickory that i have been air drying for a few years. I learned the hard way that i had to wait to use them.I made a few tomahawk handles that dried out on me and let the heads slip. Whenever i make handle blanks i just split the log and continue to split the pieces until they are around the right size for a handle. The biggest concern is just letting them dry long enough so they wont shrink once you shape them to the final size. You could always have the wood sawn into slabs and make something out of it like a nice workbench or table. They have portable sawmills that will com right to your house and cut the logs into whatever size boards you want. i have a big stack of rough sawn oak in my garage waiting to get put in my house parents house in Maine.

[pkrankow]

They have portable sawmills that will com right to your house and cut the logs into whatever size boards you want. i have a big stack of rough sawn oak in my garage waiting to get put in my house parents house in Maine.

I wish I had thought of that and looked up if someone is doing that in my area. One of my maples would have been beautiful for lumber even though it is soft maple. It is now sawn to rounds waiting to be split.

My firewood guy charges $30/hr for splitting on site ($15/hr if you participate (instead of his brother) AND follow instructions AND are physically able to help.) He claims to split about a cord an hour with his machine and his brother, so for my approximate 4 cord stack, that is about the same as renting a machine to split it myself!

Phil

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

After seeing the pic I would have him drop the tree, and buck the limbs off, then have a guy with a portable sawmill come in, and turn it into planks. You should get a ton of great lumber out of that tree. I love working with wood too, and I see a lot of potential projects there with reasonable priced lumber.

Take some to quad state and sell it as handle blanks.

[Bentiron1946]

Thomas, Yeah, we got lots of pecan here, it's all over town. Folk have it in most of the part of town that has flood irrigation. I live about twenty-five miles north of that though. I have found some nice hickory in shipping pallets though. When I go east to see kin folk in Indiana I would stop on the way back a saw mill in Missouri and bring back a load of rough sawn hickory/pecan and black walnut to sell to a cabinet maker friend of mine. It usually paid for trip homes gas. I'd also pick up some over sized chunks for some gunsmiths of the black walnut. I have rescued some Arizona ash for tool handles along with peach/apricot tree wood. Fruit wood seems better suited for tool handles like gouges, chisles and such, not too good for hammers. I haven't tried citrus wood except for some branches for hand tool handles, there used to be a lot of that but most of the groves are homes now. :(

[Ed Steinkirchner]

ive used a lot of green wood for handles and if it is something like a hammer leave the taper for the head an inch longer green than dry, and as it gets loose knock the head on further, drive in the wedges deeper with a punch, and cut off some of the wood that sticks out. seasoned wood is much nicer to use but if you need it now you can use it. when i started out i made a gouge chisel and used birch wood for the handle, ive had it for almost 5 years now and i have tried to remove it by clamping it in the vice and pulling on the handle, no movement. definately split it green, because it gets harder than chinese algebra when dry!

also take the bark off because if the base of the tree is rotten it probably has termites in it too. also be careful putting it in the trusses of a barn, cause usually seasoned wood gets powder-post bugs in it. our barn is full of tiny piles of dust from them eating the old, seasoned-wood beams.

good luck

Ed Steinkirchner

[arftist]

mis-post.