Does the heat make you dingy?

[Fe-Wood]

I'm on a bit of a dead line for project and I've had to work later into the heat of the day than I usually like to. Today was over 100 inside my shop. I don't have a thermometer inside the shop but when I left it felt cool outside and it was 92 degrees on my truck thermometer. I noticed that about an hour before I left I started to REALY struggle with simple assembly processes and I've been struggling with the spelling on this post. So, Does accumulated heat build up in the body cause a notable cognitive decline and what is the threshold before it becomes unsafe? What are some tricks people use to realize they are getting heat stroke before it becomes unsafe? I drink plenty of water too about a gallon a day or more.

[Glenn]

This thread has some good ideas as does several others on the site.
Managing in the heat, Health and survival at the forge

I noticed that about an hour before I left I started to REALLY struggle with simple assembly processes and I've been struggling with the spelling on this post.

This means that your getting overheated and need to take steps to cool down, rest, get fluids, etc. To put it another way, (in my opinion) your starting to get dangerous to yourself and others. As a blacksmith, everything we do is either hot, heavy, sharp, or dangerous. You really want to be a half or even a full second slow in your reaction time?

[BIGDAWG69]

Sounds like heat exhaustion, not heat stroke. Drink plenty of water. A wet cloth wrapped around the neck and running cool water on your wrists will help you cool down. But keep in mind, these should be done before you get to the point of feeling woozy and dizzy. Once you get to heat exhaustion, you are much closer to the dreaeded heat stroke. Best to just take it easy for a while.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/heat_exhaustion_and_heat_stroke/page3_em.htm

[edge9001]

the amount of water you need to intake is proportional to the amount of labor you are doing. when I was over in iraq we were drinking 1.5 liter bottle at a time, ussually 5 or 6 a day. while resting, so agallon of water a day is not even close to enough if working in a shop at or over 100 degrees. I would recomend researching/google desert survival guides, pay special attention to the water intake requirements most of the guides I've seen list how much water you should drink compared to the amount of work you are doing and the amount of rest you need every hour. it would look something like this. 1.5 gallons of water during strenuous activities and 40 minutes of rest for every 20 minutes of work in high heat ie above 95 degrees.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/powerpoint/First_Aid_Presentations/heat-injuries-2.shtml is a good start it is the basis of all of my training

as for does working in the heat have cumulative affect, yes and no. if you ever suffer from heat injuries ie heat stroke, heat cramps, heat exhaustion then you are more likely to suffer from those injuries again in the future. would it have a cumulative effect on you such as effecting you intelligence, no I don't belive so.

[HWooldridge]

In addition to blacksmithing, I also do a fair amount of farm work so have to manage the heat in central Texas all summer long. Recently, my wife bought one bottle each of magnesium (250mg) and potassium glucomate (550mg) tablets at the pharmacy. I take one of each on alternating days and the practice has helped me avoid cramps at night so it appears I was starving myself of electrolytes - even though I was previously drinking a lot of sport drinks. In addition, a gallon of water over a day still may not be enough in high temps; I regularly consume more than 3 gallons of fluids in the course of a long day and not felt the urge to urinate until late in the evening. Your body core will heat up to an unsafe level over time so air conditioning, re-hydration and/or a cool shower can be a life saver (high humidity makes it worse). When you get to the point of being dopey, it's almost too late to recover because you are rapidly nearing heat stroke and at that point, some people require an IV to restore their fluids quickly enough to prevent damage to the body.

[Fe-Wood]

Wow! Great stuff here and links, Thanks... I have some reading ahead of me. I've worked outside or in hot shops all my life but the location of my new shop is the hottest yet! When I said I drink a gallon a day, thats during my work time. At night I drink six to ten pints glasses of water. I haven't had the cramps at night and I dont usually start to feel woozy during the day. Today it just creaped up on me. Then of corse tonight I spent 5 hours in front of the hot stove making Necturene Butter.... See, I'm tellin ya, the heat makes you dingy

the amount of water you need to intake is proportional to the amount of labor you are doing. when I was over in iraq we were drinking 1.5 liter bottle at a time, ussually 5 or 6 a day. while resting, so agallon of water a day is not even close to enough if working in a shop at or over 100 degrees. I would recomend researching/google desert survival guides, pay special attention to the water intake requirements most of the guides I've seen list how much water you should drink compared to the amount of work you are doing and the amount of rest you need every hour. it would look something like this. 1.5 gallons of water during strenuous activities and 40 minutes of rest for every 20 minutes of work in high heat ie above 95 degrees.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/powerpoint/First_Aid_Presentations/heat-injuries-2.shtml is a good start it is the basis of all of my training

as for does working in the heat have cumulative affect, yes and no. if you ever suffer from heat injuries ie heat stroke, heat cramps, heat exhaustion then you are more likely to suffer from those injuries again in the future. would it have a cumulative effect on you such as effecting you intelligence, no I don't belive so.

There is no way I could drink 1.5 gallons of water in 1 hour. I would feel completely bloted and sluggish. I've have at times tried to drink that much water but found that it causes other issues like leathergy and an upset tummy I guess its a ballance that has to be arrived at with time. This is my second summer in the new shop and I've been putting in more time with the increase of jobs....

Recently, my wife bought one bottle each of magnesium (250mg) and potassium glucomate (550mg) tablets at the pharmacy. I take one of each on alternating days and the practice has helped me avoid cramps at night so it appears I was starving myself of electrolytes

I'm going to have to look into these suplaments- Thanks!

[RandyScott]

Due to the heat this summer and that my little forge is in my west facing garage and gets full afternoon sun, I decided to look up a 'heat index' chart via Google so that I could print it out and post it in the garage beside my outdoor thermometer with humidity gauge. In reading the info on the chart, I learned the heat index values are based on a shaded temp with a light breeze. If in the sun, add 10 to 15 degrees F to the air temp to get the index. So, if the local TV weatherman says todays heat idex will be in the 105 - 110 range, and you are working outside, you have moved from the 'danger' to the 'extreme dangerous' category. Physical labor is not factored into the chart. In the USMC training commands, these were called 'black flag' days. All outside phyical activity was to cease.. so they moved it indoors. One of the early signs of impending heat exhaustion was confusion and diminished reasoning ability as the heat cooked your brain cells. Lots of good info stated or referenced above. Additionally, I also learned that the young and the elderly have the hardest time coping with heat.

[clinton]

Be Careful dude I know how hot it gets up there, maybe a swamp cooler in your shop would help, I know a guy that has a big one I will see if I can talk him out of it. We finally got some sunshine this week it had to be in the upper 60's, man that was rough. Drove into a fog bank yesterday had to put my lights on at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, if you could send ten degrees down here that would help us both out

[HWHII]

I work in that kind of heat every day here in the desert. What works well for me is to start earily and finish earily. By that I mean if I have a lot of forge work to do I do it first thing in the morning and get it out of the way. I try to stop by 1 or 2 in the afternoon then come back laiter in the day if needed. Slow and steady works best for me. I will sit down and drink water between every heat instead of doing somthing else. The first warning sign for me for heat exhaustion is I stop sweeting, then my brain stops working, small tasks become a proublem. Then a head ache, at his point I am in trouble. No matter how much water I drink if I over do excert myself it will always come on. The one thing that will always work for me to bring my core temperature down is to run cool water over my head and keep my bandana went will I am working. Hope this helps! B)

[ThomasPowers]

when it's *HOT* I work mornings and evenings and if I have to work during the heat of the day I work 1 hour on, 1 off in the house cooling and resting, (reading blacksmithing books under the swampcooler vent works a treat!)

Drinking plain water makes me feel bad too; I cut it with gatoraide 1 part to 3 of water usually. I try to take a big swig after I put the metal back in the forge to re-heat and so have it coming in in smaller doses.

When I lose hammer control something is WRONG and it's time to make a bee-line to the house! (I'm diabetic also so dehydration is a big issue) If it's overheating go stand in a cool to cold shower! (wearing your clothes if you are too woozy to take them off!)

No deadline is worth your health or LIFE!

[edge9001]

There is no way I could drink 1.5 gallons of water in 1 hour.

I understand, as was suggested by someone else take it small doses, constantly sip on ice water. the 1.5 gallon per hour is just an example of what the info would look like, the link I gave will give the accurate water consumption needs. drinking tons of water while working in high heat is not as hard as you would think. as for the suppliment tablets, simple snacking on some salted potato chips will give you a similar effect. just have a salty snack of you choice between lunch and breakfast, and again between lunch and dinner. the reason for the cramps in the evening is an electrolyte imbalance, you can either dose upi the night before, or just maintain you body's natural balance during the day. I feel the latter is a healthier option but either will work. whats happening is all of that water is literally diluting the natural salts in the blood. by increasing your salt intake then you make up for the salts lost. another option would be 1/3 sports drink 2/3 water. this will also provide you with sugars for energy as well as water and salts.

after my time in iraq I could go on about this forever. the important thing to remeber it to watch yourself and recognize that the heat is having an effect on you. when you notice the effects, its time to cool down before its too late. Also learn to recognize the signs in others and help them as well. please study and learn the info on the link I sent you. I will save your life.

from the souds of you issues you were sufferiung from heat exhaustion and on the verge of a heat stroke. please be careful. I would hate to hear you got hurt.

[Bentiron1946]

Be careful on the other end of drinking lots of water, there is water intoxication. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
There have been some folk who experience the summer heat of Southern Arizona for first time and consume way to much water thinking that will make them feel better and all they are doing is diluting their electrolytes and then as many bad things can happen as with heat stroke.

[edge9001]

Be careful on the other end of drinking lots of water, there is water intoxication. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
There have been some folk who experience the summer heat of Southern Arizona for first time and consume way to much water thinking that will make them feel better and all they are doing is diluting their electrolytes and then as many bad things can happen as with heat stroke.

very true, I was wondering if I should touch on that or not. looks like you did for me, bentiron.

[pkrankow]

When I was in college, I was a lifeguard for a few summers at a beach. Drinking 2-3 GALLONS of water was not unusual in an 8 hour day.

On days like this the concession stand would bring us free french fries (too old to sell, the fries were only allowed to sit for about 20 minutes or so) CAKED in salt, with extra ketchup. YUM! That's the only time their fries _ever_ tasted good.

That water intoxication looks like it can be serious business.

Another trick for heat is to wet a shirt and drape it over your neck and shoulders wrapping to the front some. Using fresh water encourages evaporation more than your salty sweat does. Rinsing off, or using a wash cloth and clean fresh water to wipe down your torso and neck, several times through the day to remove excess salt will also improve your cooling from your own sweating.

Phil

[Fe-Wood]

So I read through all of the links you guys posted and listened to the suggestions. Today was a better day Just as hot I didn't get as much done but I feel a whole lot better at the end of the day
My water intake was about the same but the big difference was I rested more and I grazed on salty chips from about 10AM on. I didn't eat lunch all at once either. I split it into 2 shifts.

Oner thing about the water intake, I haven't read the wiki link yet, I've always been told that drinking cold water is harder on the system and takes longer to metabolize. I find that sometimes drinking really cold water (ice water) makes me MORE thirsty. Whats that about?

Clinton- I'm sending 10 degrees your way. Only supposed to get into to mid 80"s here this weekend :D

[Mainely,Bob]

Oner thing about the water intake, I haven't read the wiki link yet, I've always been told that drinking cold water is harder on the system and takes longer to metabolize. I find that sometimes drinking really cold water (ice water) makes me MORE thirsty. Whats that about?

Drawing on my Army training(funny how that comes in handy),we were told water at as low 40 degrees was optimal for cooling and re-hydration.We were also told that the water you drink the night before was what helped you most during a road march early the next day.
The trick is to be proactive rather than reactive as it usually takes about 24 hours for the first recovery phase of a heat injury.Once yo do recover you are more prone to become a heat casualty again in the near future.

Best to sip cool water a little at a time if you have gone up to the edge.Gulping large swallows of cool water will make it more likely that you`ll give it all back up and dehydrate yourself even more.We used to pour about half a canteen of water around a heat casualty`s neck and chest and then put a wet cloth on their head while they sat in the shade.They got to sip the remaining 1/2 canteen and once that was gone then they could go back to normal drinking.

One of the big safety rules during high heat index days is to never work alone.Once you do a face plant you have your hands full just laying there and twitching.It`s that buddy next to you not your cell phone who will both monitor your condition and water intake and save your life if either fails.
Sounds like you were VERY lucky there Ironwood.Just be aware that your line of luck has been shortened for a while.You are officially a heat casualty and need to treat yourself as such.That means having friends and family keep a closer eye on you.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I was raised in Phoenix, served in the army and worked for the forest service as an emt.
Cold water lowers your core temp, but to much to fast and you cramp and ore your body generates more heat. Cool water, not ice water is the trick.
Your gut absorbs about a cup of water in 15 min, and eny thing over 2 cups in your gut slows absorbsion. That said I regularly consume 2-24oz glasses of cool water at a time.
Sugar slows the absorbsian of water, and alcohol flat dehydrated you so as good as it taste lay of the sweet tea and cold beer during hot heavy work weeks.
If like most of us you have a uninsulated shop, especialy a tin roof, radiant heat will raze the inside temp by 20-30 deg.F.
I work in long sleeves and a headrag. With a fan. The long sleeves and bandanna conserve the sweat. Look for thin cotton shirts, the Polly blends like Dickie uses don't seam to work as well.
Look into insulating and venting your shop ceiling for next year.
Of corse yore portable rig and a shade tree cand help.
Sorry I started rambling, must be the heat...

[edge9001]

it seems tons of us have mitary training on first aid. For those who need more info on hot or cold weather injuries please, please ask us. we also (assuming everyone had the same military training I did, or at least close) have plenty of info on basic first aid as well.

I have no problem giving first aid advice. especially since the alternative is someone getting hurt.

[Mainely,Bob]

it seems tons of us have military training on first aid. For those who need more info on hot or cold weather injuries please, please ask us. we also (assuming everyone had the same military training I did, or at least close) have plenty of info on basic first aid as well.

I have no problem giving first aid advice. especially since the alternative is someone getting hurt.

Good point there Edge.
Most people who haven`t worn a uniform just assume we only have skills related to taking the opposition apart and don`t realize that a large part of our training consists of patching folks up and avoiding injuries to ourselves and our battle buddies.
That particular type of training has come in handy for me more than a few times in the civilian world too and it`s always a pleasure to help others by putting it to work.
Your tax dollars paid for it after all. ;)

[HWooldridge]

Another tidbit of farm lore re cold water...my grandparents and their siblings all worked outside in the heat doing heavy manual labor (like picking cotton and cutting corn by hand). To prevent cramps, my great uncle always counseled to pour cool water on my temples, wrists and throat before drinking any cold water. The logic was that blood was nearer to the surface of the skin at these places and cooling those areas allowed the whole body to cool down more quickly. I still follow this practice by habit and can hear his voice in my ear when I am at the sink washing up...

Our four sons grew up here in hot country and can deal with it about like I do - but #3 still experienced mild heat stroke in Iraq. They were laying on some hot sand at the firing range and about 30 guys dropped of heat exhaustion - the Army medics don't mess around and put everyone on an IV to get the fluids back in place quickly. I think the desert is worse than a humid environment because the moisture wicks away faster; you don't tend to notice it and the heat stroke sneaks up quietly.

[edge9001]

Another tidbit of farm lore re cold water...my grandparents and their siblings all worked outside in the heat doing heavy manual labor (like picking cotton and cutting corn by hand). To prevent cramps, my great uncle always counseled to pour cool water on my temples, wrists and throat before drinking any cold water. The logic was that blood was nearer to the surface of the skin at these places and cooling those areas allowed the whole body to cool down more quickly. I still follow this practice by habit and can hear his voice in my ear when I am at the sink washing up...

Our four sons grew up here in hot country and can deal with it about like I do - but #3 still experienced mild heat stroke in Iraq. They were laying on some hot sand at the firing range and about 30 guys dropped of heat exhaustion - the Army medics don't mess around and put everyone on an IV to get the fluids back in place quickly. I think the desert is worse than a humid environment because the moisture wicks away faster; you don't tend to notice it and the heat stroke sneaks up quietly.

your right, a perfect example of this is a rain storm i walked through in kuwait. the rain came up fast an hard. from thne first drop it was raining so hard I couldn't see 30 feet. the rain lasted about a minute, and then stopped completely. it was almost as if someone turned a sink faucet on and then off. I had to walk 200 yards between my building and the next. the rain started as i walked outside. by the time I got to the next building the rain had stopped and I was dry again. even my socks were soaked from the rain, and dry again from the heat. so desert hear is a completely different story than say savahnah GA. infact when I came home from iraq I left from 140degree heat with a humidity of 1%, and I landed in savahnah GA 85 degrees and 80%+ humidity. I felt wet, I got cold and went to find my jacket.

[Mainely,Bob]

Another tidbit of farm lore re cold water...my grandparents and their siblings all worked outside in the heat doing heavy manual labor (like picking cotton and cutting corn by hand). To prevent cramps, my great uncle always counseled to pour cool water on my temples, wrists and throat before drinking any cold water. The logic was that blood was nearer to the surface of the skin at these places and cooling those areas allowed the whole body to cool down more quickly. I still follow this practice by habit and can hear his voice in my ear when I am at the sink washing up...

Funny you should mention the capillary thing.When we worked in the Texas oilfield it was common to see folks working in the heat with water soaked rags around the neck,wrists and worn as a headband.I hadn`t seen that since bucking hay bales on the farm.

[Fe-Wood]

Today was a comfy 88 with a good breeze around my shop

Your gut absorbs about a cup of water in 15 min, and eny thing over 2 cups in your gut slows absorbsion.

That little tidbit is the thirst quencher! I usually drink about that much every time I take a drink of water during the work day. Any more than that and I feel bloated. I am pretty good about listening to whats up in my body thats why this was so weird and scary, it just snuck up out of the heat. Maybe I was so focused on the job and deadline that I just didn't feel the signs...

I was noticing that all you guys seem to have some military background with this stuff... Thanks for the dividend on my Tax dollars :D

[edge9001]

Today was a comfy 88 with a good breeze around my shop




That little tidbit is the thirst quencher! I usually drink about that much every time I take a drink of water during the work day. Any more than that and I feel bloated. I am pretty good about listening to whats up in my body thats why this was so weird and scary, it just snuck up out of the heat. Maybe I was so focused on the job and deadline that I just didn't feel the signs...

I was noticing that all you guys seem to have some military background with this stuff... Thanks for the dividend on my Tax dollars

hoo-ay! airborne!

[Mainely,Bob]

hoo-ay! airborne!

I think you may have missed the H key and hit the Y instead there edge.In the Cav they pronounce that HOO-AH!!!
The boys with the purple berets also spell that other word AIRBORNE,but they print EVERYTHING in upper case and run in the position of attention.
I`ve been told this expression was HUAW in it`s original form and stood for Hurry Up And Wait.
As long as I`m highjacking this thread,any other ideas where this came from?