arftist Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Too bad when a thread degenerates like this. Many of us had an inkling it could happen beginning with original post. Can we learn from this and avoid it in the future? Maybe, maybe not. But let's turn our attention to that and maybe salvage something from this experience. Not sure even now that I can recognize where we should have bailed out. But I'm going to make a mental note and try not to let things spiral out of control like this in the future. Any ideas guys? Operation was successful, but the patient is dead! Sometimes you just can't save the patient. I know because I used to watch E.R. On tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 If it were up to me, Grant, you'd have it. And here are some folks who probably feel the same. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Now there's a benefit you never considered, did'ja? As I said, I choose to wear one and pay attention. Better a paraplegic than a rutabaga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Gloves???? yes they have there place. I just think back to a time when, I'm sure most have been asked - do you get burned a lot, or wow you wouldn't want to get your fingers in that power hammer... now if one is a bit realistic, the metal is hot in the area your working it. Are you hands in that area? No. This is due to using a longer piece so you have an unheated area to hold or you use tongs if a shorter piece is used. After all the piece is hot in some areas(not where I want to hold it). I have been forging with the really thick Kevlar gloves ( the ones you don't have any hand dexterity ), only when I have been forging a large piece and tongs are not usable but the dragons breathe has heated the area were I needed to hold the piece from. Did the kevlar golves keep my hands cool? - no, and yes I did have to stop and fling the gloves off when hot,(hence loose fitting gloves). Other than that, no I do not use gloves unless a certain circumstance arises that they are really needed ( the use of a slitter/punch when a handled tool is not available on non hammer hand ). Gloves have a place but it is up to the descression of the user. The reasons for no gloves is a viable one and should at least be given a full thought, lots depends on what your doing. One of my friends calls them hand panties..... do how you feel when you feel, I just hope common sence is used and others comments are at least taken for what they are worth. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 On second thought, maybe we shouldn't have a safety forum. Doggone it, in the end he just wanted to be one o' the guys like we all do. Come on back and ease in a little. We'll all forget this in a few. Can we have a Darwin Award forum then? Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 So she got a dog to herd Frosty? Son of a Birch! I think some of the warmth may have been engendered because of the statement that the person is new to the craft and while new eyes may see things differently; they generally don't have the background to recognize possible reasons that counter what looks to be an obvious thing. Haven't we all had the experience of someone walking up and telling us we were doing it wrong because they had read *1* book or saw something on TV, (or on the internet nowadays). Makes a lot of us a bit gun shy. (My standard "reply" to such is to hand them a piece of steel and a hammer and ask them to demonstrate---*always* good for a laugh; though I *know* that someday a ringer will slip in and prove me a fool---won't be the first time either!) I often glove up the iron holding hand of a new student so they are not so afraid of the hot end and don't try working the metal at arms length. They are often amazed when I will hold the piece a foot closer to the hot end than they do (and tell them if it starts getting hot cool it in the water bucket!) I'm teaching an intro class Sunday. Eye protection and leather aprons for everyone! I also am rather causal about dropping a hot piece so they can *see* that it doesn't chase them screaming down the hall. Over reacting can cause more harm that dropping red hot metal! I wear my hearing protectors to mow the lawn and drive long distances in my old truck too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 So she got a dog to herd Frosty? Son of a Birch! It WAS a poplar idea! Best of all, it's nice to have something with a bark that won't brain me. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 So she got a dog to herd Frosty? Son of a Birch! It WAS a poplar idea! Best of all, it's nice to have something with a bark that won't brain me. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Gloves on the Bader and wire wheel, road rash on a motorcycle sucks but I fall off my grinder more often. If its hot I let it go and if its really hot kevlar is the best. Safety glasses always, unless there on top of my head protecting my shiny spot. I am always yelling in the shop, because my ear plugs are in, it tends to scare visitors off, I don't mind. Helmets suck but its in my life insurance policy? I only drink in the shop when I'm sweeping, which is often from what I been told? Mostly I like to look the large freight train call life in the eye as it barrels down the track, but I will have to admit the unexpected caboose has on occasion snuck up from behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 INSURANCE COMPANIES! $&*^$#GRRR$%&^+~! You know at one time they charged extra if you had disc brakes? Figured if you needed disc brakes you must be driving fast! They classed them as "performance equipment". :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 One tip that's been left out to prevent burns when you don't wear gloves while normal forging: don't let your tong hand drop below the metal you're hammering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 just my opinion i like leather gloves and alway wear them.. .. only there for potential accidents.. .. not to be over used, just for when i work with hot steel.. - you can have just as much control with them on.. i make knives and you need control for that... everyone is different and you should use your common sense to use as much safety gear as you need.. i remember in welding class ...some dude picked up a pile of coupons off the track torch table... he didn't know they'd just been cut several minutes before..... rest of the semester, he had hands wrapped up like a mummy .. the only time i have the safety glasses off is when the humidity is fogging them up to the point where its a big hazard..... then its time for a break, and move the fan closer... theres alway peer pressure to do this or that.... i figure after a little experience, you'll know better which measures of safety you need and don't Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Okay, I've spent WAY more time on this than I should, I have more important things to do than try convincing unwilling folk to at least consider experienced opinion and advice. heck, I have a new puppy and he's a darned agreeable little guy! See attached pic if you're interested, his name is Falki which is Icelandic for Falcon and he's an Icelandic Sheepdog. Frosty the lucky A big hello to Falcon and welcome to the world of dogs from Nibble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 We've been saving the undercoat from our russian blue cat for my wife to spin and I recently noticed that it looks exactly like very fine steel wool in the ziplock were stuffing! With my wife a spinster and me a smith we have a "steel wool" family anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Let me step in here and ask a legitimate question, please. I have worked in plenty of machine shops and am very good at always using safety glasses. However, sometimes when forging at home in the hot weather I have had some problems with "fogging up" or sweating on them. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 We've been saving the undercoat from our russian blue cat for my wife to spin and I recently noticed that it looks exactly like very fine steel wool in the ziplock were stuffing! With my wife a spinster and me a smith we have a "steel wool" family anyway. Hey Thomas, I thought I was the only one who saved that kind o' stuff - I have bags full of undercoat fur from my Siberian Husky - unfortunately I don't have a live in wool spinner to make yarn out of it. There's folk around here who'll do it for you, I just have to add it to the get - er - done list . . . Frosty, That's one adorable pup! Make sure to share some "growin' up" pics as time goes on!! Spears, I handle the steamy glasses issue with a fan standing at head height a few feet away from me when I forge - for me, that little bit of air flow seems to keep me cool enough to take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 First take the chip off your shoulder. I read many posts allowing you your opinion. And some that pointed out why what you think from your experience in a metal shop doesn't work when blacksmithing. You certainly are entitled to your opinion. BUT when you start by railing against some perceived safety issue that experience has taught others who have been at it longer than you and you basically start by saying they are idiots for not following what you think is right, you can expect grief. Your post that started this was extremely condescending. You may not have intended it that way, but it is how it came across. You were not treated unfairly. How many posts stated it was ok to forge without eye protection? That is accepted as safe. As for gloves, I've seen slag or small, hot bits fall into gloves. Gloves require more exertion on the grip that leads to repetitive stress injuries (RSI). RSI can end the hobby. And there are some people who have learned to work properly in gloves who have state they use them. I've seen hot pieces of metal get bound up in long sleeves. Long sleeves offer limited protection with some very real added dangers. How many posts agreed with what you stated for welding but talked of how they don't apply when forging? By the way, welcome to the forum. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 INSURANCE COMPANIES! $&*^$#GRRR$%&^+~! You know at one time they charged extra if you had disc brakes? Figured if you needed disc brakes you must be driving fast! They classed them as "performance equipment". They haven't changed a lot. My 4x4 turbo diesel Mitsubishi pickup was classed as an offroad vehicle AND a sports car because it was a two seater! Later my Eagle Talon fell into both classes too because it was all wheel drive and a two seater. I guess it's bean counter mentality to just have a checklist instead of actually thinking. Bucket seats makes your pickup truck a sports car and AWD makes your 5" off the ground hotrod an all off road vehicle. Well, okay I could've taken the talon off the road but that wouldn't be recommended proceedure. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 A big hello to Falcon and welcome to the world of dogs from Nibble Falki says hi back! The first pic looks like Nibble either likes dirt as a comforter or you were burying him/er. S/he looks like a real character, give him/er a scratchin for me please. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Let me step in here and ask a legitimate question, please. I have worked in plenty of machine shops and am very good at always using safety glasses. However, sometimes when forging at home in the hot weather I have had some problems with "fogging up" or sweating on them. Anyone else? You bet, try living in cold country if you want to experience fogging glasses. My readers are close fitting side shielded poly safety glasses. There are some commercial products to control fogging found at dive shops or auto supplies in cold country. An old fix is to spit on the lenses, spread it with a finger and NOT wipe it completely dry. I've heard bar soap works but have never tried it. Keeping sweat off your glasses can be done with a dew rag (head scarf) or sweat band like you see tennis players wearing. Heck, I almost forgot to answer your first question! Yes to both, fog and sweat. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Hey Thomas, I thought I was the only one who saved that kind o' stuff - I have bags full of undercoat fur from my Siberian Husky - unfortunately I don't have a live in wool spinner to make yarn out of it. There's folk around here who'll do it for you, I just have to add it to the get - er - done list . . . Frosty, That's one adorable pup! Make sure to share some "growin' up" pics as time goes on!! Spears, I handle the steamy glasses issue with a fan standing at head height a few feet away from me when I forge - for me, that little bit of air flow seems to keep me cool enough to take care of it. Deb and I are a steel wool couple too and Deb's been spinning our dog's undercoat since she began. First was Buran and Libby our now passed on, Great Pyreneese Mountain dogs, then with only 6 mos experience spinning she won a blue ribbon at the state fair with yarn spun from Abby our mostly Icelandic Sheepdog rescue. I'm sure Falki is next on our fiber animal list. Have you tried a drop spindle? Deb's been getting kids interested in spinning by showing them how with drop spindles. Seriously, if an 11 year old can be spinning nice yarn in 10-15 mins with one it can't be all THAT hard and compared to the price of a spinning wheel. . . Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdylan Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Deb and I are a steel wool couple too and Deb's been spinning our dog's undercoat since she began. First was Buran and Libby our now passed on, Great Pyreneese Mountain dogs, then with only 6 mos experience spinning she won a blue ribbon at the state fair with yarn spun from Abby our mostly Icelandic Sheepdog rescue. I'm sure Falki is next on our fiber animal list. Have you tried a drop spindle? Deb's been getting kids interested in spinning by showing them how with drop spindles. Seriously, if an 11 year old can be spinning nice yarn in 10-15 mins with one it can't be all THAT hard and compared to the price of a spinning wheel. . . Frosty the Lucky. that dog is just unfeasably cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 My wife has been teaching spinning for over 35 years now; she pretty much does it all: drop spindle, supported spindle, great (wool) wheel, spinning wheel, spinning hook... I got to make her some soapstone and alabaster whorls based on a statistical breakdown of the medieval finds at Birka and I make threading hooks for spinning wheels using twisted nickle silver wire mounted in deer antler tines. I have successfully avoided making hackles for her by finding antique ones *much* cheaper than I could make one! Spinning hooks are used to test fiber samples. The lady who popularized them used coat hanger wire. I did brass and stainless ones, buffed, for my wife and then had a spinning store stock them as a regular item. Has Deb ever tired any arctic fox undercoat? Impressively blue white! I was really on my mettle when I was buying gifts in Chile---had to feel every one of them to make sure I was getting alpaca and not llama or a mix. Found some hand made thick reversible bed socks from baby alpaca as my wife's gift and received a hero's welcome upon return home... Fibers make steel alloys look plain and simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Frosty, Thanks a lot pal . . . I gotta go out on a real thin limb now - My GF just saw the pic you posted and I now have no choice but to show it to her 9 y/o daughter . . the fact that I'll NEVER find her a dog as perfectly cute as your Abby is not going to help my credibility any! Drop spindle eh? I'll look it up - even though it wouldn't be the first time I couldn't do something as well as an 11 y/o . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Oops . . . double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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