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Anvil Repair "on the cheap"


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Looks like excellent work from the pics,something to be proud of.

Now that you have this under your belt you can now go out and look for an even BIGGER anvil in worse shape and not be afraid to buy it for less than scrap price. ;)
Seriously,the skills you learned doing this is something that will benefit you and your friends/neighbors for the rest of your life.Once word gets out that there`s a local talent that knows how to do this and you can test drive his work before you commit you will be surprised at how much work(and broken anvils)will come your way. :D

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Looks like excellent work from the pics,something to be proud of.

Now that you have this under your belt you can now go out and look for an even BIGGER anvil in worse shape and not be afraid to buy it for less than scrap price. ;)
Seriously,the skills you learned doing this is something that will benefit you and your friends/neighbors for the rest of your life.Once word gets out that there`s a local talent that knows how to do this and you can test drive his work before you commit you will be surprised at how much work(and broken anvils)will come your way. :D


Thanks, I appreciate it. I definitely enjoyed doing it and would love to do another one.

I have a 309 lb Arm & Hammer that I'm going to do some work on - just the horn and the table, though. I'm going to leave the face alone until I'm 100% sure I won't hose the tool plate (mess up the temper, use the wrong rod, etc.) It's too valuable to me to take any chances on. I know I can handle the horn and table.

I have no illusions, though - I also know I still have a lot to learn, and I'm not quite sure how to correctly weld smaller chips on the face/edge, etc (anyone out there want to teach me? smile.gif). I'd love to hang out with someone who really knows what they're doing and learn the ropes... There's only so much you can learn from reading books and watching YouTube videos, etc.
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I have heard the story of there being moisture in metal and when it is heated the moisture is driven out. Unfortunately that is not true. That moisture does not come from the metal but condenses from the atmosphere on the surface of the metal. It has to do with the dew point, and the metal being atthe right temperature to condense the water in the air.


true dat cool.gif
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I have no illusions, though - I also know I still have a lot to learn, and I'm not quite sure how to correctly weld smaller chips on the face/edge, etc (anyone out there want to teach me? smile.gif). I'd love to hang out with someone who really knows what they're doing and learn the ropes... There's only so much you can learn from reading books and watching YouTube videos, etc.

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Really good industrial blacksmiths working in the RR shops and other large maintenance shops used to do a lot of this type of work but most are long gone now.
Surprisingly(or not)some of the younger guys coming over from places like Poland and Russia have been taught these skills and will trade instruction for tutoring in English.

"What you want is someone who can make metal dance using just fire and water" was the advice I got when I asked how to do this sort of thing.


Yeah, I really want to learn, but it sounds like the chances of me finding someone that 1) knows how to do it and 2) lives near me and 3) is willing and/or able to teach me are pretty slim. I'd be willing to help someone learn English. Wonder where you would even begin to look for someone who's looking to learn English in exchange for that sort of thing.
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Yeah, I really want to learn, but it sounds like the chances of me finding someone that 1) knows how to do it and 2) lives near me and 3) is willing and/or able to teach me are pretty slim. I'd be willing to help someone learn English. Wonder where you would even begin to look for someone who's looking to learn English in exchange for that sort of thing.


Well,when I worked at an aluminum extrusion plant in Ellenville NY on the maintenance crew there was a Russian,a Polish welder and a Slovak I worked with.The Slovak fellow knew how to straighten but the Polish welder didn`t want to translate for us so it was slow going.
The Russian would share nothing and just hated everybody,really embraced the equal opportunity approach to democracy. ;)
Most larger urban areas have these folks coming in and looking for jobs.Even up here on the Maine coast we have Russians,Somalians,Europeans and other folks coming over as summer help on work visas.Talk to folks who speak with a funny accent and you may be surprised.They may not need help speaking the language but probably know somebody who does that may know what you`d like to learn.
I help my Lithuanian neighbor all the time and just recently found out he was a mechanical engineer before he married a girl from Texas and moved to Maine to become a cabinet maker. :blink:
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  • 1 year later...

That came out amazingly well.... I need to do something similar ,but instead of a chunk of the face missing mine has a missing heel...it was broken off flush with the main body.

I want to make a replacement heel and re-attach it and then HF the entire face like you've done so well. My anvil still has an intact original face ,but it's so beat-up it's almost unusable as a tool...

I'm assuming you built up the missing portion with the 7018 rod and then finished off the 7018 with the HF rod... Did you HF the entire face and then grind the entire surface ?...or... did you just re-face the repaired portion and then grind the entire face smooth ?

You didn't happen to take any "in progress" photos of the method used and care to share them with some of us contemplating something similar did you ? I'd be interested in the way you laid on the rods as you went along....

Any additional information or photos you could share would be greatly appreciated..

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Considering this was originally posted almost 2 years ago ...I'd be interested in how the repair has held up. If you're getting 85% rebound it must have worked pretty good. You do know of course that "everyone" says this can't be done this way....But then I've heard of several people that pulled it off in spite of the general thinking.

I think your repair may be the most drastic fix I've seen posted and I'm glad it seems to have worked out so well.... Gives me hope for the poor little Mouse Hole I need to repair... It still rings and a hammer bounces on the face,but sorely lacking in anything flat or smooth...

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That came out amazingly well.... I need to do something similar ,but instead of a chunk of the face missing mine has a missing heel...it was broken off flush with the main body. I want to make a replacement heel and re-attach it and then HF the entire face like you've done so well. My anvil still has an intact original face ,but it's so beat-up it's almost unusable as a tool... I'm assuming you built up the missing portion with the 7018 rod and then finished off the 7018 with the HF rod... Did you HF the entire face and then grind the entire surface ?...or... did you just re-face the repaired portion and then grind the entire face smooth ? You didn't happen to take any "in progress" photos of the method used and care to share them with some of us contemplating something similar did you ? I'd be interested in the way you laid on the rods as you went along.... Any additional information or photos you could share would be greatly appreciated..


Sorry - no pics of the welding process. There was just too much going on - I was focused on laying the welds, peening, wire brushing, checking the temperature from time to time - not to mention the occasional jog to the breaker panel when I welded for too long (I was plugged into a dryer outlet :wacko:). I didn't HF the whole top- just built up the missing portion and capped it with HF / blended it with what was left of the plate.

Anvil resurfacing is well documented. Robb Gunther & Karl Schuler did a lot of homework on it. I basically did what they described but used different rod (see http://www.anvilmag....th/anvilres.htm). The Stoody rod that Robb & Karl used was too much $$ for me.

The bottom line is I can't say the one I did will hold up. I if it's not abused, then like any other tool I think it will be okay. But, it only has 3 layers of HF and that's not very thick. It's nothing like the Hay Budden that it once was. It's probably comparable now to a thin-faced Vulcan - Maybe ... If it ends up back with me, I'll treat it as such (I gave this one to my dad. I think he uses it occasionally to straighten things on. When he passes it will probably end up back with me).

You have to ask yourself some questions about doing a repair like this before you hit the "go" button. If you're trying to learn like I was, then a project like this is definitely worth it. If not, then It may be worth it to save both and put it towards a new (used) one.

If that were my anvil and I decided to go ahead and repair it - and this is just me - I'd true up what's left of the heel, dress the horn, fix the face using a method as close as possible to Robb & Karl's and then use it as-is (heelless). Good luck & keep us posted!
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I couldn't see investing in the Stoody rods either.... Another used anvil would be cheaper than the rods alone.

I'm intending to attempt this for several reasons ... The anvil is almost un-usable as it is... I've spent thousands of bucks on welding machines and this will push my abilities to the limit (which is good) Like you it's a learning project. If it doesn't come out real well that's OK with me I'll never sell the anvil and I can find a usable anvil anyway if this doesn't work.

I'd really like to fix it for the exercise in repairing something that others consider not worth the effort... I have the rods,the grinders,& the welders to do this so why not...LOL

I can handle the 400* pre-heat and intend to pre-heat the 1/8" rods as well... Do you recall if you used AC or DC +/-- to weld this and an approximate welding amperage you used ? I'm just picking your brain on this since you managed to have some success at this and the more info you have prior to doing something like this the better the end result usually comes out..

Thanks for your original post on this and for your answers to my questions...Much Appreciated...Dave

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Yeah, sounds like the same kind of reasoning I went through (plus I needed an excuse to buy a DC stick welder!)

I wouldn't recommend you go by what I say for the amperage. Hopefully a professional welder can chime in and give some better advice (anyone?). But since you asked, this is what I did:

I ran 1/8" 7018 on DC+ as high as I could go without blowing my 30 amp breaker (which translated to 120 amps on the welder). If I had 50 amp service in my garage I would have run it higher.

I didn't pre-heat the rod, but I did use a fresh pack. The HF rod had it's own set of specs and I stayed on at the highest amperage I could for it as well (it may have been lower - I can't remember what the recommended amperage was on the pack, but I know I stayed within it's limits).

Keep in mind a good grinding & polishing can make about any weld look nice. I still don't know how it will hold up under actual use.

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Well I have a Lincoln 225 DC gas welder so amperage shouldn't be an issue... I have a big/heavy 1920's AC welder in a wooden case but wasn't sure which direction I should take with the HF rods being unfamiliar with them in the first place...

I'm considering fabricating some sort of carriage assembly on tracked rollers and mounting a grinding wheel on a jackshaft with a motor (already have several antique ones) so instead of using a side grinder I can move the grinding wheel across the stationary anvil face...much like a commercial grinder is setup only job specific. It'll only need to be 12"x 24" and aside from being more accurate it won't be so labor intensive working a big side grinder is a chore and one little slip and then more welding or more grinding...

I can build a double tracked assembly and make a single pass and then move the grinding wheel laterally for the next pass. This probably wouldn't work taking large cuts,but considering I only want to grind off as little as possible it might work for this.

Thanks for your insight and help... We'll see how this works out...Dave

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Mudbug when you get around to doing this please take a chunk of photos i am looking forward to seeing your setup as i need to at some point flip my fisher over and grind about a half inch off of the base to see if i can level it but so far i have been reluctant to go at it for fear of doing more damage than good but your set up sounds like it would do the trick

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No problem... I finally bought myself a digital camera last Fall and now I'm a shutter bug...LOL. It paid for itself just before Christmas because I'd taken pics all around my shop and 4 crackheads stole a pile of 6" pipe which I found at my buddy's scrap yard within an hour and the photo was all the evidence the cops needed...(I went back & took even more pics---just in case).

The grinder thing just sorta popped into my head last night while contemplating the chore of grinding down that HF rod... I'm thinking if I build the thing on legs and set it up level I can move the grinder wheel back-n-forth and then if I need another cut just place a sheetmetal spacer under the anvil to raise it up and start taking another cut. Nothing real complicated just a rack on a rack to allow movement front to back & then side to side also.

Something like a bridge crane system http://www.craneswebsite.com/2011/04/03/overhead-bridge-cranes-12/ or a plasma cutter table type assembly. Some angle iron tracks and some wheels and a little thought ought to make this doable. No wider than the face of an anvil is I could probably just build it for the front to back movement and then slide the anvil over for the next cut... Everyone that's done this (without access to a mill) talks about how time consuming grinding the face down is...this might make it less labor intensive and should be cheap & easy to build (easier than swinging a 7-9" grinder all day) Besides it may come in handy for something else later on..

I've probably got all the pieces to do this anyway just laying around...and I like weird tools anyway.

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Dave: The rod you listed yesterday is build up rod, not HF even if the manufacturer says it is. They often list them as the same because hardfacing often requires buildup as part of the process. The device you're describing is a surface grinder even if it isn't a precision piece of machinery. Darned well worth the effort though.

Frosty The Lucky

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Frosty--Thanks...I haven't been able to locate any information on those rods... I think I paid about $35 for 10# of them still sealed in a can. Purchasing them was a shot in the dark (I've wasted more on a lousy restaurant meal before )

I know you are more experenced using these rods than most of us so your input is greatly appreciated. I know I'm over my head on this,but it's neither a critical job or belonging to a paying customer so for me it'll be a learning exercise so any help you might share is necessary instruction on this project.

As for the homebuilt surface grinder thing ...I agree it'll be a time saver over a side grinder and even if it's not perfectly constructed for this it should be better than doing it by hand. The more I'm thinking about this the more I think a simple one direction movement will work fine and then just reposition the anvil for the next pass....we'll see what happens after I locate the parts to build it...

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I have a question. I turned down an anvil a couple years back because it had been welded on, then the apendage that was added was hacked off with a cutting torch. not sure how big what ever it was had been welded on it but it left about a 6" wide slag trail on the face.
how much damage may have been done? I could have gotten it cheap, but I wasn't to sure it was going to hold up.

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It seems to be a crapshoot as far as function goes... some look great but aren't other repairs seem quite usable.

A friend has one of the original Russian Harbor Freight anvils that seems fine and then he has a nice unknown (probably a PW) that had some weld repairs done along the edges in it's past...I don't know if it's from the welds or just the original nature of that anvil but it sounds dead to me although he doesn't seem to have any issues with it.

Mine's a no brainer...I can't hurt it...so anything I do will be an improvement. I'll just take the acquired knowledge and information and suggestions & combine that with the best available materials on hand under the circumstances and hope what I finish with will at least be usable. I don't consider my anvil usable for much in it's present condition.

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Hey Dave I would like to see how your grinder contraption works out , I was thinking about doing something similar but was planning on using a big heavy router with a 1/2 inch end mill or burr chucked in it and a frame to run it over the anvil. I have seen woodworkers level big heavy table top slabs this way. Being an anvil is not wood I dont know if vibration will shatter the tooling, so maby your grinder Idea is a more viable experiment . A crazy idea as a result of insomnia. lol

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My original thinking on this was to use one of several "jackshaft" grinder arrangements that I've collected over the years. Just mounted to a carriage in some way upside down so it could be passed over the stationary anvil.

Since I have the big cup grinders though and a big side grinder I may assemble some sort of carriage that holds the side grinder level & stationary on a cart type assembly with casters maybe. If the carriage is tall enough then you can shim the anvil "up" and then pass the carriage "over" the anvil.

As long as you're operating on a level surface either design should be able to gradually take down the surface. The weight of the jackshaft w/motor or the side grinder should be enough weight to hold things down... The secret would be to take very thin passes over the anvil...If you attempt to take thick cuts I could see things grabbing and tossing the carriage assembly over and really making a mess...

Taking continuous thin cuts and then re-shimming for another cut might be tedious work,but safer and the finished result should be acceptable. I could see this being far easier than using a heavy side grinder and attempting to have a flat surface...

It'll take far less time to fabricate a carriage to do this than to attempt it freehand. I'm not sure why this popped into my thinking,but since I don't have access to a mill or an actual surface grinder I'm hoping this might work for at least this project.

As far as the end mill .... don't think that would work well. A mill has a lot of mass to fight the friction involved.... so much mass that things don't move when contact is made. What I'm talking about is pretty light weight and using an end mill even with a tiny cut would immediately grab and cause lateral movement.

I'm not even positive my idea would work well,but at least by taking a thin cut it could "ride up" instead of biteing and shooting off in an uncontrolled manner (think drill press). I know that hardfacing rod would destroy an end mill even on a proper mill...I think it requires special tooling. A grindstone pretty much eats anything...LOL

I will take photos when I get around to this. I'd have already built this,but I've only spent a total of 2 hours at my shop since Christmas. I'm not generally so "slow" getting something done,but my 80 YO Mother has been having some serious health issues and watching her 24/7 has become a more important priority for now. Playing at the shop will have to wait.

This is one reason I'm spending so much time online researching and thinking out loud... therapy...

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You make some valid points, gives me more to think about. The original idea for this was to have something portable that could be taken to a club hammer in or anvil clinic on the weekend. Trying to bring the tool to the anvil rather then the anvil to the tool.
Any way tip of the hat for looking after Mom I have a dad who suffered a stroke so I know about priorities. You and Mom will be on my prayer list this week. TTYL Dave John

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