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Difficulty drawing down large stock


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Hi. I was having some difficulty drawing down a block of 4140 over the weekend. This block is 2.5 x 1.5, and I wanted to draw it down into a taper. I think I was getting it hot enough, but it was tough to draw down. I wanted to taper the 2.5" dimension first, since that was too large to stuff in between the LG 25 dies. So I did some striking with a 6 pound sledge, and was really going at it. About 3 or 4 heats later, I was really tired, even though I rotated with striking, but I got the end tapered enough so I could "feed the baby" on the LG. For some reason, the power hammer was much easier.

I have read on the Internet that a striker can outperform an LG 25, but it sure didn't seem that way (although we were striking on the larger unreduced stock). And, I have heard stories on the Internet of people drawing down 1.5" tool steel with a hand hammer, or even 2" W1 round for knives. This seems kind of tough, even with a striker. Is there something I'm missing. The power hammer works just fine, if I can get it between the dies.

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To work something that thick down with hand hammers, you need to reduce the surface area you're hitting it with to increase the PSI of force. Fullers are handy, the horn of the anvil, cross or straight peens, or a tilted straight sided hammer face all move metal faster and easier than flat faced hits on the anvil face. I've done upto 2" round hydraulic shafts for handled tools but it does take a while. Also, the heaviest hammer you can handle comfortably helps move the metal easier but don't blow your shoulder out with it.

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I got ahold of a chunk of 2-1/2 half round mild steel, welded a hardy post to the flat side. It makes a great bottom fuller for what you're talking about. The 'Tom Saywer' scenario works good also. "I'll let you swing the 8 pound sledge if you bring some beer over"...

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well guys i guess its time to get some striker practice in at the anvil. As said above a striker with a good 9lb hammer can put much more force in one blow than any 25lb mechanical hammer or even most 50lb mechanical hammers, those trip hammers can run allllll day with pretty little input.

but as for striking it sure can move metal if ya know what your doing and work efficiently. My sweetheart is in school with me and i have her strike for me all the time, we have worked down 3 by 2 mild a hand full of times to sizes of 1 by 1 in only a few heats. last time we did this it was a forge weld where 3 or 4 members all came together. now she is only 5 8 on a good day and ways a third less than the 175lb anvil we use and she can swing a 9lb hammer for me for near an hour. so before some one sais you need a bigger hammer, theres the option of a friend with a good back and a heavy hammer.

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Hi. Thanks for all the replies. I was not using a fuller, but was hitting over the edge of the anvil.

Grant, your comment is exactly what I observed. One blow of the sledge did a lot more than one blow of the LG. But I cannot dish out much more than about one blow per second. When I max out the LG, it hits hard and fast, at least 3 blows per second. And I get tired after 10 hits. The LG is just getting started at 10. So, the comment about a striker outperforming an LG 25 is *per blow only*? :P Hmmm, useful.

I'll have to try the fuller idea. At the level of power I am using, I don't like to draw over the horn. I also have an 8 lb cross pein, which is very effective, but I did not bring it with me that day.

The funny thing about a lot of American smiths is that they don't feel to comfortable about striking. One of them even said, hey why are you asking me to strike when you've got that power hammer over there. I'll even help you raise the ram. But he was overruled by the crowd, who wanted to see some signalled striking. And, most of them I work with don't like or cannot drink beer (I enjoy it though ;) )

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I am currenty trying to make these spuds used by wood guys who have to remove thick bark on a large tree..some of the trees are 4-6ft in diameter...the bark is 3-4 inches thik...anyway the guy showed me a spud that was made by hand a long time ago and askes can u do that...sure i repleid ...should keep my mouth shut....we start with 1.25 1060 (SUPPOSEDLY RUSSIAN rr STEEL)AND i go to my buddy who has a power hammer , self contained named a Sahliner I think...anyway we made a couple by upsetting the ends and forming from there...well I can put a better cutting end on by hand than u can with the hammer...but the cuff at the other end is supposed to hold a piece of wood for a handle, it has about a 3inch diameter...it needs to be flattened out to about .5 inch thick and wrapped around and forge welded where they meet...it gets flattened into a triangular shape then makes a nice round cuff...after a demo with a tool i notice that most of the force is in the cuff when you are working with it...one i made on the PH weakened at the cuff and tore...I said i would make another by hand because of the steps the pwr hammer put on the transition....well i just spent 3 hrs trying to bang that down....after upsetting that piece its at least 2.5 and 4 rectangular...i have come to the conclusion 1: you need a striker or a pwr hammer or take 30 yrs away from me...way too much work plus i aint gettin the right shape so i am taking a piece of this back up to the pwr hammer and doing it the easy way ....

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a nice big power hammer would be great, even though i would never give up my little striker, but in all fairness pretty much all the large things ive worked down with a striker have been mild, i like to take it pretty much all the way to welding heat, mmmmmmmm nice and soft

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a nice big power hammer would be great, even though i would never give up my little striker, but in all fairness pretty much all the large things ive worked down with a striker have been mild, i like to take it pretty much all the way to welding heat, mmmmmmmm nice and soft



MlMartin15,

Well if your sweetheart is the striker, Yeah I don't think a PH can replace her. Is she the one that helped you fix the leg vise? If so then, giving her up might get you in dutch and you would lose a vise.

If you can find someone that enjoys striking then it can make some boring work just that much more fun.

Brian
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Hi Brian. That's inspiring. I will keep at it. I don't have many opportunities to work with/as a striker, but it looks like there is a big wood splitting project coming up. Sledge + wedges + maul = opportunity to get some practice. It appears that there are some people doing some serious overhead swings. I hit pretty hard, but I don't get the hammer up that high, and even worse, I tire quickly (before the heat is over).

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Hi Brian. That's inspiring. I will keep at it. I don't have many opportunities to work with/as a striker, but it looks like there is a big wood splitting project coming up. Sledge + wedges + maul = opportunity to get some practice. It appears that there are some people doing some serious overhead swings. I hit pretty hard, but I don't get the hammer up that high, and even worse, I tire quickly (before the heat is over).


I usually work alone, also, but since this road trip and spending time in Europe, I've worked with many different strikers. The strikers that caught on best (excluding experienced strikers, of course) were the ones that had no blacksmithing experience at all but had some wood splitting experience. Splitting wood will teach you to let the tools do the work and so will striking if you get to do it enough. When you split wood, you usually have to do a bit of it. Not many people get the opportunity to strike alot. Ask Lyle,LDW,; it doesn't take too long to get good at striking.
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