urnesBeast Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I am reading Chapter 16 of Mark Aspery's excellent book (volume 1). In the chapter about making bottom tools, we are advised to make a heading plate for the creation of these tools. Why make this instead of just using the hardy hole that they will eventually be used in? My guess is to avoid stress on the anvil in case the tool gets cold during the construction, but the reasoning is never spelled out in the book. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You're right. The force necessary to upset the mass needed to create a swage is subtantially more the the force applied to the tool in use. Unless you have al arge anvil wth a thick heel, it is safer to perform this type of upsetting in a seperate block designed for that type of work. Such a block could be fabricated and then set over the middle of the anvil rather than the heel and it would work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Not to mention that often the anvils with the large thick heels are things like Fisher's and Vulcan where most of that thickness is cast iron and so not nearly as strong as you might think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 I have a 325 pound Euroanvil. It still has that 'new anvil smell', so I think I will be making a tool to make the tool that I will use to make tools... Thanks, Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 We ran a bottom tool workshop at the CBA spring conference a couple years ago, under Marks supervision. I was sooo happy I had a separate block. We ran more than 30 folks through, came out with 2 broken sledge handles, dozens of mis-strikes, etc. We decided it was humorous, because nobody cares if they whang up the block. An anvil would have gotten too much character beat into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I am reading Chapter 16 of Mark Aspery's excellent book (volume 1). In the chapter about making bottom tools, we are advised to make a heading plate for the creation of these tools. Why make this instead of just using the hardy hole that they will eventually be used in? My guess is to avoid stress on the anvil in case the tool gets cold during the construction, but the reasoning is never spelled out in the book. Doug For me it comes down to two things. 1.) I think that the forces involved in upsetting such a large mass in the Hardy is above the call of duty for an anvil. With a dedicated block, you can mount to the middle of the anvil face and get a much better return to your hammer blow. 2.) I worry about the heat transfer from the swage to the anvil. I know that I can season my heading block (large Wally Yater swage block 125 lbs) with oil mid point through the upsetting process - that's got to run 430+ F. I would worry about effecting the heat treatment of the anvil around the hardy hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Straight from the man himself. Thank you. I just made my first couple of chisels. It was cool to read parts that say "Don't do it this way, it will break." and then do it that way anyways, and break it! (Scrolling wrench) Thanks, Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Doug has a question about a book and the GOSH DARNED author comes right up and answers it. Blacksmithing is unlike any other profession in the world. Enough to give ya goosebumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 maybe i need to get this book.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I made the block as Mark describes in his book mine has two holes 1 1/4 for my Brooks and 1 inch for my other anvil (London pattern) I would think if your using a euro style anvil with the hardy up front you wouldn't need one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 maybe i need to get this book.. I did and i figured it was worth the price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Jim bob you may have more mass to keep your anvil together but you might still affect the heat treatment. That said I have always upset in my hardy hole for the fit, but you do see anvils that are broken there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Mark has done a great service in producing these books. Even I can understand what he's conveying. Besides, he's a really fine chap and he needs the money. Really though, his instructions are very clear with lots of step-by-step pictures. A must for any blacksmiths library (that would be the little shelf next to the toilet). Edited November 5, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hopefully mark produces more books and I hope they make him some money for retirement too I have vol 1 and am going to buy volume 2 when i have some extra money, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Jim bob you may have more mass to keep your anvil together but you might still affect the heat treatment. That said I have always upset in my hardy hole for the fit, but you do see anvils that are broken there. When Mark pointed that out the light blub went on thats why I made one ...mine weights about 30 pounds or so added to my 140 lb brooks it works for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Beth, ask for the book for Christmas, it is one you really want in your library, I just wish he would quit hiking the Sierras, and make some more darned books!! Just kiddin mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsiler Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I've seen it here a bunch of times but it is easier for me just to ask. Where is the best and quickest way to get Mark"s books? Sorry to be kinda lazy! Thanks Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I've seen it here a bunch of times but it is easier for me just to ask. Where is the best and quickest way to get Mark"s books? Sorry to be kinda lazy! Thanks Billy You can go to Amazon.com and order them if you want to pay by Credit card. If you order directly from me (markaspery.net) then I sign the books to you. My apologies to IFI participants, I try to keep self promotion and commerce out of my postings. Thank you for your tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Just received volume 2, volume 1 on the way. Mark signed volume 2. Great book, i am gonna start making some tools as he describes. The best blacksmithing book i have seen yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Clad Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I just purchased Mark's second book. It's a must have!! The best blacksmithing book I have ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Mark, IMHO it's not self promotion if you are answering direct questions about your product. Thank you for taking the time. I think I will be asking for one or both books for Christmas myself. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 I did and i figured it was worth the price! Actually, it is worth significantly *more* than the price. Extremely high quality photos Clear instructions and pitfall warnings (that I have ignored at my peril!) Quality binding, paper and construction I hope these are profitable enough to encourage Parts III through X. Then on to the Advanced series. -Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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