ofafeather Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Hi, All. Can someone tell me how to make a hot cut hardy? I would like to use a splitting wedge and cut or grind the shape of the shaft, especially because I have no welding ability. Any suggestions? Also, how should the edge be shaped and does it need to be heat treated. Also, should I make another hardy tool with the cut off from the splitting wedge? If so, what would be a good choice. BTW, The hardy hole on the anvil is about 1". Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I was thinking about forging down a splitting wedge, but I suspect drilling it and press or shrink fitting a round shank that can be forged square, or left round with an index pin, would be easier. I have been using a wedge as a hot cut for a while, and the shape of the edge needs adjusted some, I found it slightly too sharp, but it works rather nice. I use a c-clamp and hold it to the side of my anvil currently. It often comes loose though, so it's not a good solution. I just thought about building a wood box to hold the end on a separate stump. I'd like to hear if there are better ideas too. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgartner Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Use the chops saw you bought at the farm supply, cut the wedge, squarely 1" longer than you want the height above anvil, ( about 2" so cut three )Now the harder part, move up 1" from the bottom and cut in from all 4 sides the amount it takes to leave the size hardy post you want, ( don't have to worry too much about over cut ). Now clamp in some type of vise and cut your square out from bottom up. BE CAREFUL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If blacksmithing is your interest, why not forge it? Just start with a piece of axle around 1-1/4 inch diameter. Forge a couple inches to fit in your hardy hole. Take a heat, concentrating in the middle, put it in the hardy hole and drive it down to form a shoulder. Next all you have to do is forge the blade. No matter the result, you'll always be proud of it, can you say the same of one you cobble out of a wedge? I'm often baffled by people who want to be blacksmiths trying to find any way to avoid blacksmithing. Sorry, it'a just a thing with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Nakedanvil, for me it's just the fact of having a wedge on hand and no 1 1/4 axle, which I could probably get fairly easily. Does the Hot Cut have to be hardened and tempered? What should cross section look like? How would it be different from a Cold Cut (not the kind that goes on your sandwiches!)? I like the idea of forging one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Some people claim that the hot cutting will ruin the temper anyway, in my experience it IS worth hardening and tempering. Your wedge is probably not heat treatable. You will really enjoy FORGING your own. Find a suitable piece of stock. If you were making a poker you'd get a suitable piece, you wouldn't say " well, I got this here wedge........... Edited October 27, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Sounds good. I should start making a project list. I haven't gotten started yet. Still waiting on a forge. Soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 While I do like to offer encouragement where ever I can, I also know that some are just looking for approval on their ideas too. There is much to be learned by doing things "the old way" (what ever that is) first and innovating later. Some of us more experienced smiths have an obligation to tell it as we see it rather than always trying to spare someones feelings. Way back when, I tried many "short-cuts" and few worked as well or were as satisfying as plain old forging. That's the way I see it, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Maybe I'm all wet too. Having said all the above I can also see making one from a leaf spring as shown here. What's the difference? Danged if I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 It sort of depends what you want out of your Smithing, (I'm sure Grant would prefer that *everyone* make their own smithing tools and nobody would buy them pre-made, right?) I long ago learned that I can make a pattern welded billet and forge it into a knife in the same amount of time it takes me to make a decent set of tongs and of the two I got into smithing to do knifemaking. Being able to make your own tools doesn't mean you have to; just as you can be a woodworker without cutting and drying your own wood. (I did forge a set of Ti tongs for use with my gasser) My favorite hardy was the broken off end of a jackhammer bit, I forged the broken shaft end to fit my anvil and was ready to use it! I prefer thin hardy edges and am OK with re-dressing them after teaching a class of students. Cold cuts for notching/nicking cold steel have a broad "fat triangle" shape to them so they survive hitting cold steel on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thomas: The question was not about buying vs making. You'll note I said nothing about the hardies I manufacture, because the question did not ask about that. As a blacksmith I like to see folks making tools and I will share all I know. If they choose to buy the best tools made, well, I'm fine with that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 So am I; but I sometimes notice a strong current of smugness from folks who make all their own tooling vs some folks who get to spend less time in their forge than the others do just making tooling! I'm for folks doing what suits them best and don't consider them lesser smiths if they decide to specialize in something else and buy *great* tools from such folks as Grant! Remember I'm a "Twisted Path Smith" all the way! I actually have a store boughten hardy, won it in an IitH...As well as some antique ones. I found I liked the jackhammer bit one more than the antique ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 From the 'Learned the hard way' files, forge the square hardy stub first. It's scary and dangerous to try and grip the wedge end with tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Great conversation, folks. The more input the better for me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 ofafeather, I went to the local tech school and "borrowed" a welder and made a bunch of hardy tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think I'll build my little wood box and live with it for a while. I can screw my box to the old stump. Seems less work than making Grant happy with my current anvil. I need an anvil with a hardy. I guess this may qualify as "good enough." The wedge I have seemed to soften immediately when cutting hot and mash down some. With a slightly more blunt edge it seems to perform better, I have only dressed it after the first use when it mashed. It sparks higher carbon than mild, but I have few known samples for comparison. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 On the topic of hardening and tempering, I would say yes to both. The time that the hot steal is in contact with the hardy isn't enough to take out the hardness. There is a lot of mass there. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I made one similar to the design Grant shows, also from leaf spring. However, instead of cutting in from the sides and down, I just cut in from the sides and folded them towards the middle. Then they can be spread out or hammered in to adjust the fit. Just another way to skin the cat. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Could a few of you post pics of the shape of the side in addition to the faces that have been posted. I am having problems visualizing how fine the edge is. Thanks in advance Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Generally somewhere between 30 deg and 60 deg depending on what the user likes! There is no one best angle! What works a treat cutting axles may make a terrible one for doing fine ornamental work. I strongly suggest the iterative approach. Make one, use it, modify, use it; repeat as desired. One of the joys of smithing is you can make or modify tools to suit yourself and so are not limited to what some bean counter figures is the cheapest tool design they can get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Found this one in the Blueprints from Hofi. Good picture of cross section and excellent description of how he uses it.I Forge Iron - BP1007 How to use the Hot Cut Edited October 28, 2009 by ofafeather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi Mike. You are absolutely correct about scary. But any old tongs can be used quite safely if one remembers the "3 point rule". You must grip at a minimum of 3 points, which includes the boss of the tongs. Set this against the anvil edge, and it is quite solid. I did have an accident, however, rushing a little bit. I got tired of the tongs and anvil edge, and just wanted a clean fuller on the transition, so I put the wedge under the pritchel hold down and hit it with a top fuller. Bad idea. Set some leaves on fire with that one. Next time, it would be better to wait for the helper (who did not show up that day). Or use an angle grinder to do the fuller, that is if Grant doesn't mind . Those handled top tools are really intended for an extra pair of hands. Single handing is usually not applicable unless the work is well anchored and backed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Here's what I ended up with. Its ugly but I'm sure it will work fine for quite a while. BTW, the label says fully heat treated, hardened and tempered. It sparks like it has some carbon in it. I don't have reference samples so I can't say more. I need to give it a try now! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Piglet: Great idea. Nobody has to make me happy. Make yourself happy. I just thought you might want to learn the blacksmithing approach. Amazes me all the machinations folks will go through to avoid forging. pkrankow: let us know how that works for you. Edited October 28, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Here's the result of 1/2 an hour with a hand hammer and piece of 1-1/4 round 4140. OK I did use a sledge to upset the shoulder. This is why I can't understand all of the "shortcuts". Yeah, I just made it five minutes ago. Edited October 28, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.