mtnman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have a fun project to start, and would welcome suggestions. The situation is I am a weekend/amateur/hobby smith, and don't see that changing. My little shop was put away a couple of years ago when a snow storm took the roof down...no one hurt, but kids, G'kids, job etc kept me away and never got it re-built. We are now moving closer to Lexington KY, from the town to 8+ acres in the country !! That means I get to build a new smithy, , altho with limited funds . so, with limited funds, plenty of space, and for a "weekender" guy, what would you suggest I build, and of what? All my stuff is "old"...old cast forge table, hand crank blower, 1/2 whiskey barrel, 3x4 1/2" steel table top scrounged year ago, etc. Am pretty well OK with layout, forge to tub to anvil to table to vice...but interested in ideas for the structure. open on 3 sides? storage room? all enclosed, (with ventilation of course)? removable walls? concrete or dirt floor? wood or sheet metal or log or ? etc, etc, etc. Know this is a wide open topic, but I plan to have a lot of fun doing this, and would be glad of any ideas, suggestions, experiences, etc. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kashmire Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 i would go pentagonal with a mostly dirt or sand floor open on three side as for materials... i would go gazebo style construction... large beam at the five points to a star pattern rafter with a medium high peak... just my 2 cents i would love it and it would be awsome to give demos and stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) My 2 cents consider where you live half the year cold I would find a paver contractor in the area sometimes they remove old pavers people just want new let them dump them on your property free floor. I would build square make two walls open for demos and summertime heat. Make your own hinges free. Good roof structure bigger is better to handle load of snow don't want it falling in again. Make it bigger than you think you will ever need because as soon as it is built it will be to small. Edited October 9, 2009 by Francis Cole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Funny I'm in the middle of a similar project; only doubling the size of my current shop and doing it on $20 a week + what I bring in selling the odd piece of smithed work: Here is what I am working toward: 20'x30' with 10' walls I was able to get free utility poles from out local electrical coop, got 2 40' poles and chopped them in half and doing pole barn construction. Hand dug the holes about 5' deep to make 2 bents off the end of my own shop. Bought two old metal trusses to mount on the poles. Bought new purlins. Have a lot of hail damaged propanel for roofing and walls got free from a roofing company when they re-roofed the entire town and had way more than they could dispose of. (BAD hail storm!) Dirt/sand floor---our desert is rated as "direct pour" for concrete and so makes a decent floor as it stands. When I'm done I will have about US$1000 in it given that I can find some old barn sliding doors to scrounge I already have a dozen stall doors with hinges I can use to make double doors from. Oh yah; bought two 10' pieces of spiral wound vent pipe 12" in dia for $4 a piece from habitat for Humanity re-store a,d a couple of pieces of stainless pipe to make my side draft vents out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 just starting one too... mine will be 12 x 20 some kind of dirt/sand floor.... i am sort of inheriting a iron kiss hammer....all i gotta do is provide a compressor....but this is good inputus for me to get off the carport and put all my forges and hammers in a enclosure....it will be added on to my existing bay of my garage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'd go for a dirt floor pole barn style building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 My first shop was a 20x20 pole barn and I was quite comfortable in it. I had the following equipment at that time and it all fit: 100 lb and 25 lb power hammers on separate slabs, one coal forge, two anvils, three vises, one 4x8 work table, 225 AC/DC buzzbox, 5hp 40 gallon air compressor, an upright drill press, two bench grinders and several cabinets. The windows were all framed and cut into the wall (hinged at the top) so could be pushed out and propped up for ventilation. Two shed doors were on the east side of the building; gabled roof was made from 2x6 trusses and covered in corrugated sheet; one half of the floor was plain dirt and the other side was covered with common red brick - I did all the work including construction of the doors and windows. I built almost all of it from salvaged material so the cost was minimal and I actually liked it better than the one I have now, which is 24x36. The newer shop has a bunch more stuff crammed into it and I didn't plan the ventilation correctly so it's blazing hot in the summer, even when there is a breeze. It never stays cold for very long in Central Texas but I have a portable salamander diesel salamander for those days when it's below 40 and I really have to be in the shop. I once worked in a one man shop that was 10x10 but I could barely turn around in it and it was tough to swing lengths of steel. Of course, a knifesmith can get by with less space than someone who is building 40 foot gates. In any case, I agree with the advice for a pole barn and dirt floor. Although the storage is nice, I don't like second floor mezzanines due to the chance of catching a spark when you least expect it. Other than that, plan for plenty of ventilation in the summer but be able to close off the cracks in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 As big as possable, Its never big enough(18X32 plus a 10X16 add on)Am either climbing over or tripping on stuff. Have mine set up for heat(Foam insulation walls and ceiling) Flow thru ventilation. CO and CO/ GAS monitors. Floor is concrete (shoulda been dirt) I lucked out found a builder to build both sections matl included for about $4500. Concrete was about $1200. Was built as a welding plasma cutting shop. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I am planning on a 12X16 leanto. I'll have to do it in stages as I am on a very limited budget. But 12X16 is about all my land will allow. I am going to do this in steps. With winter looming, I need to get a roof over my head at least, so I will build maybe half of it now, then add on as I can. My initial plan was to take 12' and 10' 4X4s. Of course the 12 footers would be the front. I would sink them 2 feet and concrete them in place. I will have half walls with the upper half hinged at the top to swing open. Most of the floor will be dirt. There are going to be drainage problems so I'll probably have to put in corrugated pipe and backfill it with gravel. It'll be a better shop than I had before I bought my house. That was a small old car shed that I and my father had to practically rebuild to keep from falling down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal L Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'm in a 24X30 now and I need more room. Go as big as possible and design it for adding on in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnman Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Excellent. I really apprieciate the ideas. I plan to plan all winter and start building in the spring. will post the pix as we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyP Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Floor is concrete (shoulda been dirt) Ken Why would someone prefer a dirt floor to a concrete floor? I'm curious, I just moved into a 30x50 wood shop that had a dirt floor, just cemented the floor this summer. I hated the dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Cement is hard to stand on for long periods, and spalls when very hot items are on it. Otherwise dunno. There is a thread about where it isn't cold that has some shop construction tips in it from a keeping cool standpoint. http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/when-snow-never-flies-14697/ Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 cement is hard on your feet ....the older you get the less tolerable it is...power hammers and cement are not buddies...I have seen them used that way....clean up is easier with a soft floor...there is none... a woodshop i would think is a bit doifferent, but standing on cement is just plain uncomfortable.... I pan to use a combo of 2B modified with some screenings on top and clay underneath, my hammer will be set on a couple of large timbers for steadyness.....the welding room is cement and the clean bench room is lso cement....but the forge area will be a soft floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james gonzalez Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Post and beam, Board and batten would be my approach. Dirt floor. A little bigger than you think you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyP Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yea cement can be hard on the feet if your standing on it all day thats for sure. I got some rubber matting in front of my benchs for when I'm at the drill press and welding station. I also have a wheeled work bench which I like to wheel into the middle of the shop for layout sometimes, other times I like using sawhorses, so cement was the way to go for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why would someone prefer a dirt floor to a concrete floor? I'm curious, I just moved into a 30x50 wood shop that had a dirt floor, just cemented the floor this summer. I hated the dirt. Most anything dropped on a concrete floor will bounce, often in a bad direction - especially if hot (like a piece off a hot cut). Anything dropped on dirt just goes thud. Many hotwork shops such as casting and smithing have dirt floors - in the old days they were oiled to keep the dust down but I use water whenever it gets a little too dry and "puffy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 When we bought our place it came with one of those portabl e metal car ports. The former owner bought it extra tall, 12 ft center, to park his tractor under. Since the wife decided the 28x36 shop was actually a garage for her to park in, I've started to convert the carport into a blacksmith shop. It's 20 x 24 and so far I've got the sides closed in and a walk in door hung. The West end will be closed and my side draft ran through it. The East end will have 2 5' swinging doors. Working on it has been hit & miss, but hopefully it'll be done before the weather changes too much. The floor will stay gravel and dirt. Someday hope to pour a slab and instal a power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I do not recommend a concrete floor. I have worked on them, and it causes all sorts of body issues because of how hard the floor is. I hate working on dirt though. The happy medium for me was, putting in a 4" layer of pea gravel and curshed rock. No more body problems, no more dust, and the perfect floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalsculptingben Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I live in Lexington and curious to see what you are doing, let me know what is up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 id do a simple easy post and beam bldg as you say you will be on 8 acres.there easy to put up and leaves you a huge open area. look for a local saw mill get rough saw wood and in your area thats should be easy and cheap.....in close it with steel sheets as they make bldg out of. you want a dirt floor..i chose #10 crushed tenn blue stone dust for my shop..its 35'x60' us bldg arch bldg with a 15x20 foot forgeing pit..concrete will kill your body in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 i just had my dream come true 2 months ago..i had a 35x60 arch us building 18' tall built.it was costly but its a very very secure bldg..with a 15x20 foot forging (crushed #10 stone dust)area as my friend and bs mentor doug merkel did to his shop..his is a huge post and beam..mine is smaller and arched..i had it with 6' straight walls so i did not loose space on low arched area as some are..i should of gone 8' oh well hind sight lol.. i am building a series of sepperate rooms on both side of the big doors and will add on a 2nd floor above thos rooms for a extra 1,000 sgft for roughly 3,000 sqft...the seperate rooms are for different arts and crafts not wanting to cross contamaneteeach other,,one for fine finishing like knives and jewelry...others pottery,leather..and a grinding room with a metal dust collector and spark arrestor...the open area will have wood working machines that ill move about freeing up space as i need it. the shop has 4" of concrete with 3x the rebar as the contractor planed on useing..to me ill always over build..it pays off later. with the bldg up and 7 power circuts on for now the hard part is deciedng the size of the rooms and where to put in power and eqt so its a very efficent plan that later i do NOT have to re build urrr lol...its going to be a work in process as i go...but now all my eqt is under one roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadrudd Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Great reading the comments on a shop site. I am in Australia and the worst thing here is heat. When I build (and I will one day) I will have a big big industrial fan. I like the idea of the pentagonal building regards to all dadrudd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) You didn't say what your budget was, but here are some ideas. Shipping containers. Set a couple apart from each other and roof over the space created. Storage, workspaces in the containers. Monolithic concrete dome. Straw bale construction. Rammed earth using old tires for the walls. I am going to do a 3 sided wind barrier out of 55 gallon drums laid on their sides, and welded together. I know not to weld a closed, or residue containing drum The drums will make a wall that will create storage pockets for holding material, tools, etc.. 55 gallon drums are roughly 2'x3', and I was just given about 40 of them from work. Should be enough to get me going for now. Since I live in a desert, my dream shop will be subterranean to beat the 3 solid months of 100-115 degree heat, and the low 20's winter cold. Using the straw bale, or rammed earth methods you can end up with walls that are 3'-4' thick, or more. These thick walls provide a large thermal mass that resists heating during the summer, and cooling during the winter. The materials are also cheap to free. The shotcrete that goes over them will make them a structural wall. With smart architecture you can use the sun to your advantage providing passive solar for heat, and shaded during the summer with properly designed overhangs. Some other alternative construction methods such as cob, and adobe could also be used, Think beyond sticks to build with. Wood burns, rots, attracts termites, needs painting, and shifts throughout the year. some benefits of the above methods are sound deadening, low maintenance, fire proofing, inexpensive, interior temps that stay pretty constant throughout the year ,can use dirt from your property, and ease of construction. There is a lot of info out now on alternative construction techniques. On my local Craigslist I have seen a stack of 40' trusses for free, structural steel , "I" beams, pipe, steel shapes, glue lams, and various other building materials for a lot less than new. Edited October 14, 2009 by BIGGUNDOCTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobinbama Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You didn't say what your budget was, but here are some ideas. Shipping containers. Set a couple apart from each other and roof over the space created. Storage, workspaces in the containers. Shipping containers work great. We use them on the job site for storage all of the time. We set two of them 20' apart and have a aluminum frame and tarp system that sets on both containers and covers the center work area. You can even get a container with a side door that would open to the work area. They are a little expensive to buy, here they run about $2,500.00 but when you consider building a whole shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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