flandersander Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 What is scale? Is it simply oxidized steel? Does clink have anything to contribute to scale? Sorry for the noob questions, just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Scale is simply Fe3O4, black iron oxide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 some of it will melt while you are working and glom to spent coal that is a clinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-ski Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Fire scale is a kissing cousin to rust. Both are iron oxides, slightly different chemical formulae. When the orange hot steel comes in contact with the oxygen in the air, the scale forms. If your gas forge is running lean/oxidizing (less gas) more scale is formed. If the gas forge is running rich (more gas) less scale will form. In the coal forge, if you push your steel down towards the bottom of the fire pot, you will get more scale as the oxygen at the bottom of the fire pot has not yet been consumed by the burning coke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersander Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oh, okay. This forum is so helpful. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Bravo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Is it recommended to brush off scale with each heat? Does this lead to less scale on the finished piece or is it not worth the extra time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 brushing your piec does remove but doesnot reduce scaling...the reason you want rid of it is it is harder than the metal you are bangin therefore when its hot and you smack the metal the scale can imbed it self in the steel ...not to mention how it will dent your anvil so you should brush the piece and wipe the anvil after every heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 One older smith told me when I first started to call it super rust not scale. What ever you call it is advisable to get it off with a wire brush while hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Bravo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Thanks guys. The brushing seems logical. I have worked without doing so and it did seem that I had pounded some of the "super rust" right into the piece. Thanks for the confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 A lot of the time you can hit a few glancing blows or "on edge" smacks with your hammer to dislodge the scale. Saves tons of time messing around with a brush, switching it for a hammer and then going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I saw a smith who worked with a wet anvil and hammer because the water would form steam so fast it blew the scale off the steel without brushing. I've tried it and it works however I've splashed myself a few times plus the loud pop when the steel hits the anvil is a touch disconcerting for onlookers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I guess if your anvil doesn't have a good ring, you could wet it and make it pop to get people to come see what is going on. Sending flying scale at them after may not work out in your favor though :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The scale is easier to brush off if you do it as you dip the hot piece into water, it sort of blows it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I agree with Nuge on angling the hammer for the first tap or two. I tap the outside edge first, to send the sparks at my leather apron rather than at the onlookers. (Knock on wood), never burned a spectator......yet!!! My welds usually take quickly by angling the hammer, then flat striking it. My 2 cents. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Anybody try fastening a wire brush to the anvil stand? The thought leaped out at Nuge's comment about switching tools. I can only think of minor reasons to not do so, such as brushing your leg or not being able to be vigorous enough with a large iron. Controlling the hot iron seems the only dangerous part... I have noticed that the first few taps drop a pile of scale and I am tending to tap on one end of the anvil and work on the other because of it. I keep forgetting that I have a wire brush on the stump ready to pick up till I am reheating. Then I brush off my anvil. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 pkrankow: Good idea! But how about putting two brushes together so you just drag the piece through them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Yeah, great idea Phil and a good modification Grant. How about angling them so the bristles come together in a "V" so you can brush different sized steel and still hit both sides? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I thought about making a V too. I think the only extra wire brushes I have are small ones, so I might need to buy another brush to give it a try. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Bravo Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 The switching of tools and the time/heat lost doing so is certainly a drawback. The brush attached to the anvil stand sounds worth attempting. How about two brushes with a spring to create some pressure on the piece as it passes between them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 No spring needed. Take two of the big brushes (what 3 X 6?, The kind with real stiff wires) and mount them so they face each other just touching. You should be able to draw anything up to 1 inch or so through. The wires are the springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttt Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I am knew to this, but what scale I do get, usually comes right off with the first smack. I guess the law of averages ensures that at some point I am gonna end up with scale sticking outta my project when all finished. But, what I do know is that if you are trying to forge weld, you deffinitely need to get off the scale. It makes welding a living hell if you don't get it off. Mutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Perhaps mount the brushes with a hardy hole shaft so that they will drop in place and be stationary whilst dragging the work back and forth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I got in the habit of smacking the hot iron against the side of the anvil, before placing it on the anvil and striking, surprised no one else mentioned this method, most of the scale falls off. Even if I am using my power hammer, I smack the side of the anvil with the hot steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Bravo Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I got in the habit of smacking the hot iron against the side of the anvil, before placing it on the anvil and striking What? No mounting of brushes, springs, gadgets etc.? Where's your sense of adventure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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