Avadon Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 What kind of ballpark price are we talking about for milling an anvil face or even just a chunk of steel? :confused: I looked into milling a face of steel that was 4"x13", top and bottom. For this the guy said it will be about $500.00 at this local steel yard in mass. The piece of steel is 4X13x16 about 240lb, but still I was expecting it to be about 80$ How hard could it be. I mean I could mill the top with an drill press with an xy table and a good bit. Only need to take off probably 1/32 or 1/16 at most. How do they charge such outrageous prices for milling anvil faces or even the face of steel stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 have you ever used a milling machine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko 58 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Milling mc aren't cheap, They are very true and he would have to mill top and bottom surfaces to get true .Not really a 5 minute job ,a bit of work involved. A drill just wouldn't do it to much slop in spindle and the rest of machine. It's a buisness they are there for the Money :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 If you are near a big city, look up "Blanchard grinding", much cheaper for what you want. Ten years ago I was paying around 25 cents per square inch plus $25.00 setup fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 If you are near a big city, look up "Blanchard grinding", much cheaper for what you want. Ten years ago I was paying around 25 cents per square inch plus $25.00 setup fee. Yah thats what i'm talking about. I guess for the milling they have to setup some sort of jig and what not and run a cnc pattern on it, but still $500.00, I mean come on. The piece of steel cost 375$ i'm paying more for the milling then the steel is worth. Surface grinding is prolly what the doctor ordered. Failing that I'm guessing angle grinder with sanding disc is the best I can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 What is the specification of flatness that you require? a boat anchors can be 1 inch +/- and still work as a boat anchor. An anvil face can be 1/16 inch +/- and still work as an anvil face. If you want 0.0100 flat that is one thing, but if you need 0.0001 that is another, and 0.000001 is just high dollar specs. In this case you make the call and get (hopefully) what you pay for. One last question, are you going to check the flatness with a "sure looks pretty as you run your hand across the surface", a wooden ruler, a caliper, a micrometer, or a high magnification optical (or other type) sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 a .0100 would be impressive enough for me. If I have a need for anything in the ten thou range I consider myself in serious trouble This is just for blademaking but trying to get a face flat with the sander is less then optimal, but I guess that is probably the most realistic option. I found a few places not far from Plymouth Mass that might be able to grind the surface. But since it's just A36 probably sanding it by hand is good enuff considering the price to have it down is most likely to astronomical. Once I make some calls monday though i'll know definitively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Milling steel is one thing, milling slag is another. Is this a flame cut side? If so, I charge you $500 too. Nasty! And then you're talking taking off .060 - .100, yeah, $500. sounds right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If all you are doing is checking flatness of a piece, then buy a surface plate from MSC, Granite surface plates are the standard for flatness and lay out in machine shops. If you need bigger than 12x18 then the price goes up by sq inch and thickness. Keyword/Part # Search Catalog Page # Search Search tips MSC/J&L MSC Part # Competitor Legacy J&L Part # Customer Manufacturer UPC NSN Large Order Item Details MEASURING INSTRUMENTS SURFACE PLATES PLATES Item #00150011 Options: Add To Cart Add to List Email To A Friend Print this page MSC #: 00150011 Qty: Order Qty of 1 = 1 Piece Price: $131.26 ea In stock: 121 Mfr: Value Mfr #: 640-0120 Description: Surface Plates Length: 12 Width: 18 Thickness: 3 Grade: B Material: Granite Length (Inch): 12 Width (Inch): 18 Thickness: 3 Grade: B Material: Granite Unilateral Tolerance: .0002 Color: Black Number of Ledges: No Ledge Big Book Page #: 1328 Metalworking Catalog: 1430 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Milling steel is one thing, milling slag is another. Is this a flame cut side? If so, I charge you $500 too. Nasty! And then you're talking taking off .060 - .100, yeah, $500. sounds right. Yah it's flame cut side. So I guess it's going to be angle grinder/belt sander 4 me :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If the flame cut isn't perfectly square they might have to take off a lot more than a 1/16Grant has it right unless it's saw cut it will be hard and nasty. If you think milling prices are high wait till you price surface grinding. I have to tell customers all the time I have to pay for the 50K in equipment How about 1% plus overhead plus my $100 per hr. We all would like to pay $1-2lb for a new anvil. I want a Anyang 20 for a grand. Not going to hold my breath for either. Best of luck. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 What do people normally use when they need to built on a very level/flat surface. Do they actually fabricate ontop of those granite bench tops? Seems like that is not the case because they are not metal. I have a piece of 3/16" steel table top I put ontop of a wood desk and it's been rather poor for a working surface because it has warped and balooned in so many areas I can't use it as a level surface. Anyone have suggestions for a serious level surface. Do I just need a thicker piece of steel with more supports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I thought the same - just get a thicker piece, in my case(for a work table - I know this is larger than what your maybe wanting) a 4ft x 8ft sheet of 1" plate - WRONG -. Some of you may not know, like I didn't, that my 1" plate came sheared off a 8ft wide ribbon. There is the same issues with flatness as in say a wood board - cupping,twisted,bowed etc. What I did was put the plate on a frame so that the weight of the plate help straighten it'self while setting on the frame. I did not want to weld an under frame to keep it straight but I seldom have to worry about it. I can usually shim while clamping to get what I'm working on flat. So just because it's thicker doesn't mean its flat, out of 6 plates I chose the best one for my welding table. - JK Edited June 28, 2009 by jeremy k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Man, after reading all the way through this I'm sure glad that what ever I made was good as it came off the face of the anvil. I shudder to think of the tolerances that I worked to, hammer to shape, file to size, then hammer some more till it works.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Amen Bentiron, At one time i had a 2 in 3X6 ft aluminum table top. It stayed flat. I have had 1/4in 3X3 ft tops welding aluminum tubing warp 6in in 6 mos. If you want a flat top table go with 2in alum or cast iron. An anvil with a 3/16 sway will yeild a streight blade IF you learn to use it. How large/streight were the anvils used to make the early katanas? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 I thought the same - just get a thicker piece, in my case(for a work table - I know this is larger than what your maybe wanting) a 4ft x 8ft sheet of 1" plate - WRONG -. Some of you may not know, like I didn't, that my 1" plate came sheared off a 8ft wide ribbon. There is the same issues with flatness as in say a wood board - cupping,twisted,bowed etc. What I did was put the plate on a frame so that the weight of the plate help straighten it'self while setting on the frame. I did not want to weld an under frame to keep it straight but I seldom have to worry about it. I can usually shim while clamping to get what I'm working on flat. So just because it's thicker doesn't mean its flat, out of 6 plates I chose the best one for my welding table. - JK My fears were well realized then. I thought I might have similar problems just getting a thicker piece of plate. I have a 3' x 8' by 3/16's piece of steel. Fairly heavy and I laid it ontop of wooden desk. The steel I glued down with PL industrial adhesive. Unfortunately over time whilst using torches and welding I'd accidentally transferred heat into the steel top and thus created warps or seperations where it has pulled up from the glue/wood desk. So I am curious do people usually use those granite tops to fabricate and setup or layout materials on and then get their tack welds and such in place? The more fabrication I do the more I realize having a flat surface that you can clamp to or use a square upon will be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 This is just for blademaking but trying to get a face flat Is this a block to lay the blade on to check flatness, or to be used as an anvil, or to clamp to or what? Please describe the process where you need a 4X13x16 surface at .0100 flat and weighing 240 pounds in order to make a blade. You have my interest and it is better to ask than speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I do this all the time when fixing/repair welding anvils you need use of a 9" good grinder a 9" GOOD Cone -dished- grinding wheel flexovit sp-? is a good one also a flat wheel & sanding pad for finshing med & very fine and about an 1-1/2 hr of time and have at it I can grind an anvil almost as good as a mill and way better than you need for an anvil you can ask any of the 30 + anvils I have repaired for folks HO yes the machine is ALOT easier lol don't have one:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ooooh.. griding cones, I didn't even think of that. I guess the 9" grinder gives a lot more opportunity for flatness then using a 4.5" grinder on a 4" wide surface. I suppose with a 4.5" grinder I will probably end up doing some rounding. I'll just use my square from the side to see if i have any highspots. I guess if I can get it even decently close to level i'll be far better off then a lot of beaten up anvils out there. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Ironwolf: Yes sir! That's the best way for most folks to go about it. Get dirty! The dish wheels are far more aggressive and that is what you need to start. On something as rough as Avadon is talking about, I’d even go in with the edge first and make checker-board series of cuts down to the bottom of the flame cut. Use a square on it, look at it from different angles, when you think you’re getting close put bluing (or a light coat of spray paint) and rub it with a brick. The high spots will show up right away. I see guys trying to grind out a pit and they grind right on the pit. Well, I hate to tell you this, but……..the pit is already low! Ya gotta grind everything else down to the level of the pit. Rant over, cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Is this a block to lay the blade on to check flatness, or to be used as an anvil, or to clamp to or what? Please describe the process where you need a 4X13x16 surface at .0100 flat and weighing 240 pounds in order to make a blade. You have my interest and it is better to ask than speculate. It's a little confusing. Actually were talking about two different things. One was how to get a perfectly true/flat surface to weld and fabricate on, at least to get tack welds setup and such. The other thing I was talking about is how to get a large piece of flame-cut plate true on the ends. I don't NEED it .0100 flat to make a blade or really to make anything, I WANT it that flat lol. If it was a need I'd either shell out the cash or find something else. But you know what they say about wanting and wishing. So I'll most likely just have to settle for eyeball flatness. But I still will call up some grinding companies and see how much they charge for some loose tolerances (like +/- .015) to ease my curiousity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trying-it Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) $500 just to mill a A36 block flat? Geeze That is outgareous!!!! I once stabbed, slabbed, and fried a graphite mold I modified for researchers and only collected $300 for all my services. Mold is used for manufacturing the nose cones for cruise missles. As for paying more for machining costs than material costs: I can take a cheap little section of 203 stainless shafting (say $20 value) and machine it into a now $300 replacement shaft for a customer that original maufacturers currently charges $500 for. There is an anvil machining BP in about the 300-400 series. It was complete machining of a brand new russian vanadium anvil that still included an excessively domed face and thick mold seam line surrounding entire anvil. As for milling in a drill press with an x-y table. Please call me, I want to watch. We need to take pics for BP submission. I promise not to laugh much when entire setup falls from table breaking toes, etc. However I will charge 2X the price for machining a new drill press spindle for one that gets bent or broken during this learning experience. Edited June 28, 2009 by trying-it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Avadon, send me a PM. I am not that far from you, and would be glad to help you with this. If you want to come down on a weekend, you can use my mill. I will clean the shop and distract you while YOU do the work. Plus then you will owe me a small favor Bwaa haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trying-it Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I once took a little off the top of a BIG Peter Wright anvil (.060 - .090) for a nice guy and swordsmith that worked with Daryl Meier. I told him to pay me as much as he thought my services were worth to him. For my services rendered, Dean handed me 4 pattern welded billets he and Daryl had recently made together. I smiled from ear-ear and told him bill was paid in full...... and thanks for the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 What do people normally use when they need to built on a very level/flat surface. Do they actually fabricate ontop of those granite bench tops? Seems like that is not the case because they are not metal. I have a piece of 3/16" steel table top I put ontop of a wood desk and it's been rather poor for a working surface because it has warped and balooned in so many areas I can't use it as a level surface. Anyone have suggestions for a serious level surface. Do I just need a thicker piece of steel with more supports? Granite surface plates are used for lay out and check surfaces. if for instance you want to scribe a line for a 4 degree tapper you would set up and shim to within +/- .001 +/- the accuracy of you instruments. Or check the taper the same way with dial indicators etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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