Rich Hale Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If anyone is still following this thread : a flat plate anvil or whatever is the hardest thing to use to forge anything flat. When you smack hot steel on it it thins the material and most likely lifts both ends. I flat with a bit of dip in the middle allows the material to bend not thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Trying-it: You work way too cheap, brother. Let's see: Machining 4 X 13 top and bottom. Gotta stand it up in the machine the 16" way. My Kurt vise adds another 3", so 19" off the table? So better to lay it down and use a 5" long end mill (I'd rather use an inserted cutter). Might be able to get through the flame cut bark with a high speed cutter $300.00), maybe not, yer throwin' the dice. Do I want to take the chance I'll ruin a 1-1/2 X 5" Carbide cutter ($500.00)? O.K. I give up! How would you do it? Be a lot cheaper if.........you grind it all down to virgin metal first. Yeah, that'ed be cool seeing this 16" high block plus 6" for the X/Y table on top in a little drill press So, 24" off the table. I'd pay a dollar to see that! Me and Trying-it have the ticket concession! Edited June 28, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 It gets worse. You gotta clamp it down across the table and set it up twice. If I put it the other way on my mill table, where do I put my hold-downs? The table in my Haas is only 14 X 36. Not considered small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 My table is 48''. An insert face mill would be nice, but a carbide tool in a flycutter should work. Don't see the need for milling top and bottom, he is only going to the top. As far as holding down, don't see any reason not to weld something to each end. Easy enough to grind off after. A single point carbide tool is cheap, take another one out of the draw. If it can't go through, then grind it. For that matter, he can take it down with a solid carbide end mill, got plenty of them and it's his time to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I would use end mills and take small cuts. I did the face of an anvil after hard facing and found that a good end mill of the right size and speed cut smoothly without stressing the tool or the end mill. I did discover that silica inclusions in wrought iron would tear up carbide end mill in a New York second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 But you're still talking 16" tall, but welding lugs on is is a really good idea, wish I had thought of that, dang you, Arftist! Both method would work, but be slow. On virgin surfaces I would be cutting .060 deep, 700 rpm and 40 inches per minute. Not many machine shops want to watch a single bit fly cutter go around all day, or back and forth with a small cutter. Both plans are great in your own shop. Really should find some old shop with a good old fashion shaper. Don't look at me, he said he wanted both ends milled, didn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindviper Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 My fears were well realized then. I thought I might have similar problems just getting a thicker piece of plate. I have a 3' x 8' by 3/16's piece of steel. Fairly heavy and I laid it ontop of wooden desk. The steel I glued down with PL industrial adhesive. Unfortunately over time whilst using torches and welding I'd accidentally transferred heat into the steel top and thus created warps or seperations where it has pulled up from the glue/wood desk. So I am curious do people usually use those granite tops to fabricate and setup or layout materials on and then get their tack welds and such in place? The more fabrication I do the more I realize having a flat surface that you can clamp to or use a square upon will be necessary. You could get some 1/4-20 machine bolts with a counter sunk head. Drill and counter sink the holes the threw bolt the steel top too the wood. You could even drill the holes in the wood to say a 3/8 size and use a 1/4" fender washer to a allow for expansion and contraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Man some of the shapers and planers I saw get scrapped! "Those things are obsolete now son." I remember one that had to be twenty feet long at a Morse twist drill factory auction. I couldn't stand it so I bought it for $25. Then remembered I had no where to put it and no way to get it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I just milled the bop and bottom of a saddle die for my hammer that was flamecut out of 4" plate it is 10" by about 12". Now I must say the flame cut was very clean and the place that I go for flame cut plate grinds the slag off the corner. I laid it flat across the table with the faces that I had to cut on the front and back aligned with the x axis of the mill (a fairly small bridgeport type). I used a new extra long 1" roughing mill ($120) to clean up the face then took an extra long 1" 2 flute to clean up the roughness from the roughing mill. I then extended the ram to make the same cuts on the other side. I think I took cuts of about .05" with the roughing cutter and it didn't me more than an hour or so to clamp things down and make the cuts. I had to take off about .1" per face to clean it up. My new roughing end mill still looks brand new. Setting up for and cutting the dovetail took much longer. I think $80 is overly optimistic but I think if you shop around a little in this economy you should be able to get it machined for a lot less than $500. I would make sure that there is no slag on it and have CASH on hand to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) $100/hr seems to be the minimum price in a lot of the US for most technical shop work. Ten years ago I had buddies that would do serious work for as little as $50/hr to get contracts for short run fill in jobs. They were owner/machinist types however. Edited June 29, 2009 by Charlotte insert word left out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I was speaking to a manager at a large machine shop the other day, and he was saying that right now a multi million dollar CNC boring mill that is normally charged in the $150/hr range is being billed out at $80 for some jobs and they are still losing out jobs to shops that are working even cheaper. There are some bargains out there right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Well, I can tell I'm seriously out of touch. I've never done job shop work, only tool & die and i always give a firm quote, never by the hour. I also seem a bit insulated from the downturn. Lucky me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Avadon, send me a PM. I am not that far from you, and would be glad to help you with this. If you want to come down on a weekend, you can use my mill. I will clean the shop and distract you while YOU do the work. Plus then you will owe me a small favor Bwaa haha. Cool.. I will take a look at the block tommorow when it arrives and see how bad it is and how much work it needs. Thank you for the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Yeah, I guess i was being a "Richard". Must be one of my TLC's (that'd be "Three Letter Conditions", like CRS, RLS, PMS, ADD, OLD, etc). Sorry guys. Bring it to me and I'll do it for a six pack of Bud. Edited June 29, 2009 by nakedanvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Is that a firm quote? (grin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Well when I needed maching work on a project I made a deal with the local VoTech class and they did it for a "contibution" to the end of the year party fund. Shaper would be the way I'd go if I had to face a big chunk. Set it up and forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Avadon. One more option to explore. Are there any waterjet shops in your area? That's be a fairly simple operation for them. I'm guessing that it would be a lot cheaper/quicker/easier than any other machining operation. It wouldn't be "perfect", the kerf will be a bit wider at the top than the bottom, but the cut would be straight resulting in a flat surface that is "tilted" to one side about 30 thousandths from one side to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Ayye.. Har she be!! 4" wide x 13" long x 16" tall. She's laying on her side. Sorta like the obelisk from 2001 I went a little crazy when I saw it and started slapping it. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindviper Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 If you are going threw the trouble and expense to have it machined. I would at least put some hard facing welding rod on the face. P.S how much was the paper weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Well within the possibility of cleaning it up with a 7 or 9" angle grinder. You don't need to get abouve about 120 grit and then forging on it will polish it up over time---scale is an abrasive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Well within the possibility of cleaning it up with a 7 or 9" angle grinder. You don't need to get abouve about 120 grit and then forging on it will polish it up over time---scale is an abrasive! Yah the flame cut was nowhere near as bad as what I expected. so I'll probably just angle grind it up some. The hard facing is not a bad idea but I've always heard this is a real chore, but maybe the chore part is the clean-up/machining it level. Maybe I could make it really simple if i'm just angle grinding it down. Blind Viper or Thomas, do you have a link to the process? I'll have to take a video of it, because the ring on this thing.. well.. lets just say it's a lot higher and louder then my Nimba. But it will still be easier on the neightbors then my little 20lb piece of steel I was hammering on. If all goes well Brian Brazeal will be proud, if it does not, he will laugh. Either way this should be "interesting". Edited June 30, 2009 by Avadon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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