Another FrankenBurner

Is this what you mean? Page 96 of burners 101.

This is the right place to talk about burners. We can't really answer your questions as the picture you have posted shows us only the fuel connection portion. I do not see a burner. I second ThomasPowers advice to go with a known to work burner plan. (Frosty T, Mikey, Reil burner etc.) Built to the plan. Burners look simple but have complexities which make their dimensions critical. Unfortunately, there are a lot of YouTube videos with burners which are bad examples. It's easy to make fire come out of a pipe. It's more difficult to make efficient hot fire. Especially if you don't know what it looks like. Known plans make success much more likely.

Just to put it out there, you can link directly to a post. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/46536-burners-101/page/13/?tab=comments#comment-528496

Are you looking for 2D CAD software? There is a freeware called LibreCAD. I pointed Tristan in that direction a while back and within a couple of days he sent me some work he had done in it. I use TurboCAD mostly, so I don't have much experience with LibreCAD.

I'm not sure how it's being used above because of the metric/standard fun but a mil in standard machinist terms is a "thou" or thousandth of an inch (0.001"). This is needed because in standard, the smallest measurement we use is an inch before going to fractions. Counting in tens is just smarter so when tiny measurements are needed in standard, mils are used. I was raised on standard. Now I use both because I have to. How much I prefer subtract 1 or 0.1 or even 0.01 over multiply the numerator and denominator by 2 or 4 or 8 depending on how small the size change needed, subtract one from the numerator, and check for common denominator to determine the next size down. The most annoying part is working on anything that uses both systems. Second being needing to have two sets of tools which are almost identical but aren't. I'm done

Well that is a bummer. Hopefully better luck with the codierite.

I caught this one but I didn't want to presume it was directed at me. I am indeed reading this. I am still tinkering with nozzles. Currently, I am playing with FAM velocity at the ejection point to see its effect on flame propagation velocity and forge temperature. I have not played with the bull nose shape. I have a dual fuel bernzomatic torch which employs one but it also has a baffle to cause what they call a swirl flame. As far as I can see, the baffle causes the FAM to rotate and slings it to the outside wall of the nozzle which then hits the bull nose, I think to prevent it from continuing to sling outward. I have one of my burners as a hand torch but it has a standard nozzle on it. I have not thought about nozzles specific to hand torch use.

Good stuff. I like tinkering with the turn down range as well. I am curious, if you turn it down to what you consider your lowest end with still clean burning, will the FAM flow through be enough to keep the block cool enough? Or like Frosty experienced, will it run well for a while until the block slowly heats too high and then boom ignition inside the plenum? Your long running stable low end may be determined by having enough FAM flow for cooling more so than just pulling in enough air. If you had more than enough high end, you could sacrifice some high end to gain low end if you needed lower capabilities for some reason. You are liking low end for heat treat purposes? In which case, you are more than happy with 1400°F? Did you run some tests for the surface area of the initial block or did you just size it based on the available space in your forge from the previous burner?

Very cool. I see these plates used in burners at work a lot. I have a pile of them I planned on playing with. Most manufacturers call them ceramic radiant burners or high efficiency burners. Both naturally aspirated and powered air varieties. The powered air versions usually use 3 of these blocks for a large, high output burner. The naturally aspirated sometimes run a low enough output that the flame just barely covers the plate and the plate runs into the orange temperature ranges for radiant heat transfer. I wondered about the cooling factor when run in the higher temperatures of a forge. Your pictures make it look like there is enough flow through the block to keep it cool. Makes sense, the connecting refractory being only as wide as the ports themselves. Little refractory with lots of flow. I like it. I will have to start tinkering too.

Sorry Frosty, I had to put that out there. Those pictures/videos are rough enough that they might make an impact on would be careless grinder operators. I've never messed with those gnarly looking chainsaw attachments. The small round ones or the bar attachments. They are a neat carving attachment but I see myself regretting using one. They just seem too aggressive for such a lightweight powerful tool. I've heard enough horror stories of chainsaw kickback with full size heavy saws. I'm sure some folks use and love them.

I wrote the above to be the other side of the coin. Several members had mentioned their fear of using an angle grinder, in some cases avoiding them completely as they are too dangerous. I get it, lots of people are killed/injured every year by 4 1/2" angle grinders. I wanted to show that with proper knowledge/precaution, angle grinders are a great tool to have. As I know it, the biggest two causes of injury are having a type 1 bonded cut off disc explode throwing chunks at the operator and losing control because of kick back. Both of which, if anticipated, can be minimized. As to the cutoff disc exploding, leave the guard on the unit. DON'T RUN CHEAP WHEELS, as though your life could depend on it. Don't run the 6" cut off wheels on the 4 1/2" angle grinder. Generally the 6" wheels are rated at 10,000 ish RPM maximum and the 4 1/2" angle grinders run faster than that. If you need encouragement, do a search of angle grinder accidents. You will see horrible images of partial wheels sticking out of faces. Hard to forget images. I should not have used the word never with the diamond cut off discs. I was warned to not use them at first until I got the hang of the angle grinder. I use them and prefer them as they are statistically safer because they don't explode. I also like the lesser dust created. I have never had one bind/kick and get away from me but I can see the logic behind the warning I was given. I prefer the way the bonded disc cuts and have only had one disc explode which was because of how I was using it. I had the guard on, my PPE on, I was not inline with the wheel so instead of injuring myself potentially horribly, I put on another disc and went back to work, a bit more carefully. After a bit of experience, you learn to cut by feel. You can feel when you are twisting/flexing the wheel, when it starts to become trapped by the cut piece bending, and when you are cutting against an edge. You learn the most efficient way to cut which mostly prevents kick back and wheel shatter, and doesn't wear the wheel out nearly as fast. When it comes to kick back, think about how you are cutting, how the wheel is rotating and if it does kick, which way it is going to go. Cut in a way that makes it so the kick direction is away from you. If the sparks are flying your way, the tool will kick away from you. Then you can just hold onto it and nothing bad happens. The side handle is great for this. As Stash said above, a trigger or paddle switch is great in that if the grinder did happen to get away from you, it would shut off. Fix the piece you are cutting. Don't try to hold the piece in one hand and the grinder in the other. You could lose fingers or turn the piece into a projectile pretty easily. Angle grinders are running a high RPM with a big wheel. They can change things very quickly which is why they are so great but also so potentially dangerous. It only takes one bad moment or one stupid thing to really change what you have going on. Treat them as such so you don't get too comfortable and they are a great tool. Deimos, thank you for that. I had no idea either.

Passing over the door is your problem. The forge exhaust gases leave the forge, heat rises, and heats up your pipe. Any chance you can get another partial turn on the elbow to rotate the fuel line to the side of the forge instead of passing over the door? Hold the pipe attached to the forge and rotate the elbow, avoiding rotating the pipe attached to the forge. Looks like you'd have to cut the support arm off the forge as it's in the way. An unrelated piece of advice, if you replace that coupling with a union, you can disassemble this thing more easily for maintenance, moving, etc. How long is this plumbing? Could you take a picture of the entire plumb system? Too long and you start adding unneeded resistance which can lower output depending on your blower. Flex line would give even worse problems with resistance.

I understand. I have felt the same way watching people with kitchen knives, axes, circular saws, chainsaws, car jacks, a lawn mower, even a kitchen hand mixer. Lots of stuff has risks. Knowing and caring about the risks helps you stay safe. Watching others who don't always makes me cringe. I have been on several construction sites and seen things that I just had to look away. I've also heard a lot of bad stories when it went wrong. This shouldn't stop a person from using them though. Learn the risks and think before you act.

They are neat. Power Air Purifying Respirator (PAPR). 3M's Versaflo ranges $1300 - 1800. A bit hefty and pricey for me.

Did your family member end up ok? I've had doctor intervention for something in my eye two different times. The first time because of no eye protection which resulted in surgical removal. The second time because my eye protection wasn't enough (darn) which luckily was able to be pulled. I sure hope it doesn't happen a third time, I'm going to be walking around in full body suit. I was told, by the first time doc, if it happens again, immediately stop what I was doing when I felt something hit my eye and go take a look in the mirror. Blinking a lot and rubbing eyes can make things worse. If it is loose in the eye, it can be flushed out. If it penetrated the eye, go to the doc as soon as possible because it will start to rust in there. Rust stains the eye and makes it harder to extract the piece. If I had followed this advice the first time, maybe surgery wouldn't have been required. I did follow it the second time and perhaps that it why it was more easily pulled. I like my vision. I now have an "eye magnet" and eye flush just incase.

Thanks Mike. It was a bit off topic and I should have posted it to the relevant place. The angle grinder is a bit large for making burners. Though most of those same points follow through with the mini rotatories (dremel) cutting discs. I just didn't want anyone to get the sense that angle grinders were to be avoided all together. Their affordability and usefulness makes them worth having. Especially to someone just starting out. Harbor Freight's lowest end model, currently going by the name Drill Master (Black handle, 4.3amp, ) goes for $15 and can be had for $10 with a coupon. I bought one to test for the new guys and they are not bad. I have put it through it's paces and it keeps on going. Though, I steer clear of the Harbor Freight abrasives. I have used them and they do work but they take longer to remove metal and don't last as long. The skinny cutoff wheels also produce a wider cut and seem to be more brittle. I have had what twigg said, happen to me. I had on safety glasses (not goggles) and a respirator. A piece ricocheted off the respirator, under the glasses into my eye. I was using a rotary file, not an angle grinder. The angle grinder tends to throw showers of smaller sparks and bits of abrasive and the rotary file throws larger sharper pieces. I now have safety goggles to block this from happening again. I also have a full face shield for the higher risk stuff. For the angle grinder, I select which of the above I use based on what and how I am cutting and specifically where the bulk of the sparks are going to fly. If I am using the rotary file, I am at least wearing the goggles if not goggles and the face shield. I should have included in that list to pay attention to your sparks. I have burned more holes in my shirts/pants with the angle grinder rooster tail than I have with hot steel/scale. After a while, you know where the bulk of the sparks are going to fly and you can select the cutting position and guard position to send the sparks in a safe direction.

I regularly use an angle grinder with an abrasive cutoff wheel. I also use grinding wheels, flap discs, and cup brushes. If I were to start a new smithy with limited funds, it would be the first electric tool I purchased. I own several. I use them in my trade as well, so I have hours and hours of experience using them. I do not fear using them but I keep a healthy respect. Are there risks involved in using them, yes. Understanding these risks, helps with safety. It does not eliminate the risks, it makes you work differently to mitigate them. My advice if you are new to angle grinders: If you know someone who has experience and can show you the ropes, it's worth asking. So long as they are safety conscious. A lot of guys are careless in their use. They get away with it until they don't. Buy a regular powered model, not the new high torque models. I would rather have a tool that jams to a stop when torqued funny, than one which has enough power to keep on spinning. Never use a diamond coated cutoff wheel. When torqued funny, an abrasive wheel will shatter which is better than a steel wheel which could instead torque the tool out of your hands and keep on spinning. Never use cheap abrasive wheels as they tend to shatter easier than better wheels. The less shattering the better. Never use cracked, frayed, or damaged wheels for the same reason. Don't put a 6 inch wheel on a 4 1/2" angle grinder. Make sure the max RPM of your intended accessory is rated higher than the RPM of your grinder. I have seen cup brushes rated well below the standard grinder RPM even though they have the proper mount for the standard grinder. Never stand inline with the cutoff wheel when cutting. People tend to sight down the wheel for cutting straight lines. If the wheel shatters, you don't want to be in that lineup. Never put a sideways pressure on the cutoff wheel. The cutoff wheel is not a grinding wheel. The cutoff is designed to cut straight linear cuts. You risk shattering the disk by pressing it sideways. Never take the guard off. Not only does it guard you from shattering discs, it prevents you from sticking your fingers into the backside of the wheel, and it directs the sparks away from you when cutting. I am surprised how often I see this problem. Whenever possible, use the side handle. It is more ergonomic giving a better less fatiguing grip and two hands are better than one. Wear your PPE. For me this is generally goggles, muffs, and respirator. I also like a leather apron to save my shirts/pants from sparks. Some of my co workers like gloves. I don't personally as I prefer a better grip. No loose clothing. If something loose gets caught up in the grinder, the grinder winds it up. Sometimes pulling the grinder into the clothing. Imagine a loose t shirt, the grinder could pull itself straight into the belly/chest. The cup brushes are more likely to grab something this way than discs. Don't death grip the tool but always assume it could attempt to lurch forward at any moment. Think loose but secure grip. Never put muscle into it. Let the tool do the job. You are there to guide the tool. Extra pressure will make it cut faster. It will also wear you out faster, wear the wheel out faster, and makes it easier to jam the wheel either sideways in which case the wheel can shatter or inline which can cause the tool to lurch forward potentially out of your hands. At first, I recommend light pressure. Get used to how the tool moves and how this makes it try to move. The angle grinder wheel spins clockwise when viewed from above, this causes it to pull forward when cutting with the wheel in a vertical orientation or kick to the left when the wheel is oriented horizontally. You have to counter these movements. The more pressure you push the tool into the metal, the more power the movement will have. If you are fatigued, put the tool down. It sounds scary maybe. So does an orange piece of metal to those who don't play with them. I use my angle grinders regularly without hesitation. All that said, if I can cut it with the band saw, I will do that before the grinder. Less noise and dust. The exception being harder metals. I would rather waste a cutoff disc than a bandsaw blade. If I can grind it on the belt grinder, I will. Even clean grinding is much easier than with a small rotating disc. I also use a jig saw, sawzall, and a plasma cutter for cutting depending on what I am cutting, though they come out less often. If I could have only one electric tool as a general blacksmith, it would probably be a 4 1/2" angle grinder. You can cut, grind, and polish with one tool.

I need to go out and forge a foot in mouth extraction pry bar. I try hard not to talk about things I don't know. If I ever fully figure it out, there's a good chance I'll never speak again.

I thought the same on the dimensions but I don't know much about ribbon burner or square wall forge flow patterns.

I interpret that a little differently. Should be fine meaning the burner would run fine and the forge would heat steel. Difficult to heat evenly meaning you may have a hot spot wherever the burner is pointed because of the long/narrow dimensions. With a top center down burner, the hottest area being right in the center. If you are to be a knife smith exclusively, you might want to invest some fuss in this. I am a general smith and I prefer to have a hot spot. On the occasion that I make a knife, I just have to know the hot spot is there and work with it. With a ribbon burner which is also long and narrow, your heat gradient may be a lot less than my single port burner forges. I am not experienced with ribbon burners so I am not sure on this. Sounds like it could be a nice forge. If you end up building with soft firebrick, you can build the burner, then temporarily play legos with the bricks and burner to see what configuration you like.

Welcome to the club. I spend as much time tinkering with burners as I do actually using them. A lathe also makes drilling the tee concentric with the mix tube a piece of cake. If you are trying to squeak out every drop, spend most of your time on drilling that hole as close as you can get it. Having the orifice off just a little can reduce induction dramatically. The smaller the burner, the smaller the error to screw up things. Nice job on the tiny burner. I like the mini forge as well.

Nice job. Looks like you are having fun over there.

No problem jwmelvin. As to your expansion in round, small cones in sheet metal are not too bad to roll by hand. You can use several online calculators to get the layout of the cone. I wrote a small program which does the same but outputs a DXF file for scaled printing. I posted about it on page 48 of Burners 101. M.J.Lampert, I second what yotebuster said. The Creality machines are less expensive and can produce excellent results, however, they are very basic and require a lot of tinkering and learning in order to keep the machine printing nicely. The Prusa is more expensive but requires a less attention to keep running smoothly. If you like to tinker and don't "just need it to work" than the Creality machines are great machines, otherwise, if you have the money to spend, the Prusa MK3S+ is All3DP's pick for best printer currently. Over here we print on the Ender 3 pro with a glass bed and the CR-10S which are basically the same machine but the CR-10S has a larger print capability.

What are you interested in now?

Welcome Rusty. Good ideas. As to the ribbon burners being cast in a 3D printed mold, it has been done a little bit. I have played with it but haven't given any of it enough time to understand the particulars yet. I spent a lot of time on the head, then the nozzle, then the casting process. I plan on heading into the ribbon burner territory soon. The only other one I can remember off the top of my head is member jwmelvin printed a mold. I could not find his original post which contained the mold itself but I found his thread which shows the burner in action. I also tested some port shapes by filling a 3d print with water and running it as a burner. It worked well for learning.