evfreek

My sincerest condolences to you Larry for your deep and tragic loss.

I've also found this peening technique to work on anvils that are not as hard as they should be. As Grant says, do not wait until the little rim of metal has worn down, else there will be nothing to peen back down.

I think that all choices have their merits, and I wouldn't rush into it. The part about welding around the outside without preheat may not be such a good idea, but the outcome may not be much worse than what you already have.

The big problem with rebar is that its inconsistency scares beginners. But, hot rolled can be pretty inconsistent as well. If you are starting out, the best thing to do is go to a local conference or hammer-in and keep your eyes open. They will probably have a beginner's workshop, and steel will be provided. This will probably not be rebar. When I started out, my forge did not get hot enough. I had a little 25 lb RR track anvil. I did not know how to spark test. The local construction crew dropped a piece of 5/8" rebar, which I started with. It was discouraging. After I took my first lesson, which involved making a punch out of mild steel, on a real anvil, then destroying it punching two holes, things were a lot clearer. Now I knew what the rebar was for and how to embrace its difficulty.

The photos really help. A milling machine or surface grinder would not be too useful on this project. It looks like if you want to do some welding, it might be best to fix the hardy hole, then you can use that and the horn. I have had good luck fixing cast iron with the standard techniques, but I have also seen a Fisher with a nickel job whose top plate popped off. This can be very discouraging after blowing lots of money on the rod and seeing the top pop off. You can spend as much money on the rod as a replacement anvil, and as much time on the welding as a fabricated anvil and have nothing except a tragic reminder afterwards.

781, that's a good way. Phil is right, though. Might be a good idea to destroy this one. Did the poke test with a thin rod stick? If so, it is likely welded. How strong? First, cut through the U bend so that the little faggot piece is no longer attached except at the weld. Make sure to cut well into the weld. Still holding? Good. Now put the faggot into the vice and start twisting and yanking on the long end. Still holding? Good. Put the bar in your post vice with the cut facing upwards, and give it a pop with a cold chisel. Still holding? That's great, you're doing better than I am. Now, heat to a very dull red and give it another pop with the chisel. Still holding? That's great. By the way, even if the weld fails one of these tests, it will often fail cold under use away from the weld. That's just the way stresses work (stress is often concentrated away from the weld). That doesn't mean it is a good weld. A poorly designed or executed weld that fails somewhere else is still a failed weld. At least, that's what the instructor said. ;)

The thermite idea is very interesting. I once saw some appropriate technology research being done in in India which stated that thermite based reactions were the only scalable method of providing tool steel in poor rural areas. Of course, the researcher was familiar with puddling, Bessemer and blistering processes. Unfortunately, his report cost more rupees than I was willing to spend. Interesting concept, nonetheless.

Sometimes it helps to have a few holes in the bottom to allow some air to convect in while burning. I tried this simple direct burn method. It is fast, but it generates too much smoke.

Hi. I made two modifications to the weld technique. First, realizing that the chamfer on the sides of the rectangular tubing made a difficult to fill gap, the frame was angled so that the presentation was more horizontal than a fillet weld. This helped it fill better. Second picture shows that baking the rods did help. These were rods thrown in with a box of stuff at a garage sale. Normally, I don't buy rods like this, but if they're thrown in, one may as well use them. This press just landed on me as a temporary gift. I think my friend's wife told him to get it out of there. He said he might ask for it back, so I should not do too much hacking on it.

Hey Steve, buddy, you aren't going to get any flames from me unless you're buying the coal But you probably will have to bear with another story. Once upon a time, my friend asked me to teach him how to make pattern welded knives. I told him that I was no good at it even though I consider myself able to forge weld. Instead, I directed him to an instructor who also did bladesmithing. The instructor said he would help my friend and I for a small fee which I was glad to pay, since I considered him to be the expert. He helped us shear and stack the material (1080 and 15N20), and sand it in a convex shape so that the high points ran down the middle. He then told us to use a lot of coke to keep the scaling down. The fire pile was huge. Then, he showed us how to flux out of the fire so that we didn't mess up his forge. He then set the first weld to show how to recognize the welding heat and make sure that we were successful. Then, he instructed us to draw out the billet. This was hard work, and felt even harder when just as exhaustion set in, the billet popped apart into its constituent layers. My friend was so discouraged, he pretty much lost interest in doing any more of this. To his credit, he asked to reimburse me for the lesson fee, because it was his request in the first place. He was done, but I wasn't. I went over what we did and figured that the fire was probably not big enough, due to the forge geometry, even though the instructor had piled it on pretty deep. I salvaged the bad billet, cut it in half, soaked the cracks in muriatic acid, and tried it again in the same size of fire. Success!!! And all the nice layers showed up on the sides. No separating layers. Hmmmmm, maybe it was because I was using my familiar forge. On the other hand, maybe it was not having an impatient instructor looking over my shoulder making me nervous. Just kidding. I think that the reason really was that the instructor was right after all about the deep fire, just not quite right enough. Hope these hints help a little bit. And when you go to an instructor to show you some tips, be sure to pay attention to what he says, not just what he does. :lol:

Hi fellas. Thanks for all the suggestions. The welder that I am using is a 220 V Miller Thunderbolt. I have been having trouble with the welds between the cross member and the verticals because of the large gap between the beveled square tubing and the plate. I think that the gap just needs to be filled. As observed, there is too much undercut, so I should back off on the heat. I tried baking the rods as suggested. They are "free" garage sale rods. Also, I did a safe loading calculation on the top cross-member. It is 4500 lbs. So, the frame, as it stands, is only good for a 2 ton jack. With even a couple good inches of weld, this should hold.

Hi. One of my friends is downsizing, and he gave me a press frame. I can make a hydraulic jack press with this frame. He welded it out of 3/16" structural steel with a 120V flux core wire welder, and the welds do not look good. I have found that even lousy looking MIG welds can be surprisingly strong, however, and he assured me that he has used it a lot and it is safe. My plan is to grind the bad looking welds out and re-weld them with a stick welder. Unfortunately, I am not very good at welding (no good practice or training) and it might be better to leave well enough alone. I have stayed away from structural or vehicle welding, and have only had one mission critical weld let go. It failed the way those kinds of welds do, slowly and gently, with plenty of time to get out of the way Here are some photos. The first two are original welds, the next is one original weld ground out, and the last two are my welds. Should I go for it, or leave well enough alone? Structural calculations suggest that the welds are not the weak point, and the press will fail first by deflection of one of the cross members.

I looked at the formula on the Monster Anvils thread, and it looks like a formula for the wrong case. According to the person who came up with this formula from an introductory physics textbook, it describes the energy lost in the rebounding hammer assuming perfectly elastic collision with the anvil. This is not what happens when an experienced blacksmith is forging. According to a mechanical engineering text that I looked at, most industrial forging takes place at nearly zero restitution coefficient. In other words, the collision of hammer and target is nearly inelastic. At zero restitution coefficient, the hammer sticks to the target. At unit restitution coefficient, the hammer rebounds elastic with no energy deposited in deformation of the target. This corresponds more to the case of the beginner wailing away on cold metal. I watched some blacksmiths, including myself, and noticed that the hammer does not rebound much except for finishing blows. So, the more relevant number is the energy "lost" in deformation for an inelastic collision. The efficiency then becomes this amount divided by the initial hammer energy. Isn't the desirable energy that which goes to do useful work on the target, anyway? Not the energy that sends your hammer rebounding up. I notice that the hammer only rebounds appreciably when I accidentally strike the face of the anvil. Get out that physics textbook again, and do the calculation for an inelastic collision. This time, the velocity of the hammer and that of the target is equal (sticking) after collision, so there's your extra equation to make up for losing the conservation of energy equation. You have the unknown velocity and the single equation of conservation of momentum. One equation, one unknown, and it can be solved. Or, if the math is too overbearing, immediately join the CBA and get the next California Blacksmith magazine, which will have the answer, I hope. Of course, this observation seems to fly in the face of the guru's statements at anvilfire.com, but it does seem that blacksmithing is about deforming hot metal rather than seeing how high your ball bearing rebounds.

For reasons of safety, it is important to stay away from thin spots in the metal. Almost no matter how hot the metal is, a hammer strike will rebound sharply from a thin area. One can think of it as there is almost nothing between the hammer and the anvil. Another way to think about it is that the only way the metal can get out of the way is to be extruded in a thin layer. Yes, for those of you who are wondering, I did learn from the accident :(

Hey Steve, I did not mean to insult you. I was just trying to find some reasons why that "apprentice" seems to have an easier time than some of us. The reasons mentioned above could explain it. We may never know, because a lot of those old master-apprentice interaction models were never committed to writing, but only stayed hidden as tribal knowledge or trade secret. We do have a small glimpse through historical fiction and interviews, such as the Foxfire book. Most of those Appalachian smiths who were interviewed for the Foxfire book avoided forge welding. Maybe it also is not paying attention, as you replied.

Hi. I am having a hard time accessing these links. They lead to a support page. Does anybody know how to get to them????????? Thanks in advance! :)

If you think that forge welding is an easy job for a 7 year old apprentice, go take a look at Mark Aspery's youtube channel. There, you will find a video of the instructor's training workshop at Vista. The task was to make box jaw tongs with welded on reins. This requires a drop tong weld. Mark makes it look easy, but he warns people that it is not. He says that you have to try 1000 forge welds before you can consider yourself a forge weldor. Note that nobody said "master the technique". That may require a few more. Then, the camera checks out the attempts of the class participants. Note that these are not "apprentices". They are instructors in training and have a lot of experience already. I talked to one of the fellows later. This video is real. It really happened. I saw a demo at the Spring Conference where the demonstrator never got the weld to take and ended up giving up. And this was not even a drop tongs weld. It turned out to be the metal: junk out of the scrap bin. Another workshop coordinator brought his own steel all out of the same lot, and this welded up just fine in the same forge. The "apprentice" may have had it easy because he was using a more known product, most likely wrought iron. Also, he was probably working at a forge constructed by a professional. A lot of folks here are using an unknown forge made by a first timer out of a brake drum, washtub or freon tank. That's not to say that these forges won't weld. It just makes things harder. Youtube is your friend.

The most common problem with forge welding when using charcoal is an oxidizing fire, often caused by an insufficiently deep bed. Other problems are bad charcoal. I once saw a smith at a demo reject all the charcoal because of unsuitability for welding. The conference organizers had to sell it as BBQ charcoal at a loss. He explained in detail how the ash from some hardwood charcoal contaminates the weld. If the forge is not getting hot enough, you just need to make sure that the pieces are small enough, the bed is deep enough, and there is enough air. A hair dryer is usually sufficient, if the holes in your grate are large enough. Also, chop the charcoal to walnut or smaller size. Provide some pics, or even better, videos with sound.

I had a similar problem when I was working on a friend's anvil with sharp edges. Somehow, it is almost impossible to keep from getting digs if you are doing shouldering operations. It may help to use fullers to develop the transitions, and avoid shouldering blows. What is the radius on the anvil's edges?

Last year, I noticed the "tough customer" for the first time. I demo at a venue where the only rule is that we need to be continuously working hot iron during the demo period. No sales, but also no fee. I was trying to make a pair of farrier's tongs like the ones on Mark Aspery's website. I have slowly come to the conclusion that although he makes things look easy, it is pretty hard to follow his instructions and get a smooth result. The tongs were successful, and they are one of my favorite pairs, but a couple of the visitors did not like me making them. They pointed out to me that they don't like to see a demonstrator fiddling around and struggling on something he obviously does not have any experience on. Furthermore, the progress is slow, and a tong half is not really recognizable to the general public until it finally takes shape. Especially one with a weird funky round jaw. They suggested that I stick with nails, hearts, leaves and S-hooks. Of course, I enthusiastically nodded my head, pushed aside the tong project, and immediately started making hooks. I wonder what the problem is all of a sudden. It seems that recessions stifle individuals' openness and creativity, making them stupid. :(

My sincerest condolences for your loss and a loss to the blacksmithing community.

Do a spark test and a hardening test. I have found that the circular saws with carbide teeth are a chrome low carbon spring steel, which is springy but not great for hardening. The huge ones without brazed carbides spark like the big 15N20 wood bandsaw blades. These are hardenable, and are good for knives. If you can get over to visit a bladesmith in your area, that would help.

Careful that he doesn't get injured with the compressed schedule. I was on a roll once when I was at a conference, and I guess I overdid it. Fortunately, an old fella grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and dragged me to a power hammer, saying, it's time you learned something about one of these before you hurt yourself.

Lookin' good Sam. I'm sure everybody had fun. It's good to learn something and bring stuff home.

Wow, that story about the artery was pretty scary. Bob, what if you were at a hammerin in the middle of nowhere? I would be just tempted to immobilize it and leave it in. Gotta watch out with those errant strikes. I almost had a catastrophe happen. Missed by mere inches. Good thing the striker was an EMT. One of my bicycling buddies was hit by a truck and took a branch right through his wrist. It healed over the branch, and 3 months later the bump erupted and a rotten old stick came out. Good thing he did not get infected, since he did not have healthcare. Couldn't go see a doctor either. I'll have to look into that Prid. That plus pine tar sounds good for self care. Careful of those soft parts.