newbieforge

Gundog, You may also find the "clamshell" gas forge style interesting: http://www.armyofzer...lamshell Forge/ As you can see, it would allow heating odd shapes. I built a gas forge, following in the style of Ron Reil (http://ronreil.abana.org/Forge1.shtml) which so far works well enough for me. I am learning to forge and it works great for heating linear shaped pieces of steel. But I think if I were to start designing and building a new forge today, I would try the clamshell design, because it would afford me the versatility to heat long objects, or very strange 2D and 3D shapes. Regards, Markus

LOL rockstar... B)

Just thought I'd share some recent progress I've made on my gas forge. It is a 4-burner forge, modelled after Ron Reil's 4-burner forge. See http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml for more info. Forge Body The body is a 24" segment cut from a 100# propane cylinder, which I got for free. The inner diameter of the cylinder is 14.5", and I've lined it with 2 layers of 1" kaowool type ceramic cloth insulation. That leaves the forge interior with a 10.5" inner diameter. All interior surfaces are brushed with ITC-100. The forge floor is made from four 2" thick insulating kiln bricks. These bricks are nice and light, and good insulators, but are too weak to work as a forge floor. Every single one is cracked in multiple places. But they still get the job done, and I'll replace them when they have reduced to a pile of brick crumbs. Burners The burners are Reil style 3/4" burners, with tunable chokes. The parts for the burners were purchased new, and cost around $15-20 each to build. (Just a bit more than the optimistic $5 that some online sources claim it costs to make these.) The most expensive parts of the forge are the brass and copper hardware for the gas lines. These were also purchased new. Stand The stand is welded and bolted from 1"x1" angle irons. The stand footprint is about 18" by 18". Embarrassingly, I started The Gas Forge Project more than a year ago, and got it to 80-90% completion in about 2 months. It was working around this time last year, in the sense that I could light up the burners, and get pieces of metal to red or orange heat. However, it was lacking some important features: front door, back wall, and workpiece holder. Without the front door and back wall, it was possible to heat metal, but it was very inefficient because most of the heat was being wasted. Finally, this past week, I made the time to finish up these loose ends. Here are the results. Just after lighting the front 2 burners: I'd like to point out the frame holding the fire brick door in place, with the forged scrolls. The scrolls are free hand shaped with hammer and bending fork, out of 1/4" square stock. It was a fun opportunity to use the forge to build the forge. It was also my first blacksmith project that ended up serving some kind of useful purpose... which is why I'm pointing it out. :) The fire bricks that form the door can be moved and adjusted as needed. Originally I was going to build a metal door with a fixed size opening and kaowool liner, but the fire bricks are a much easier and much more flexible and future proof solution, in my opinion. The sliding work holder rack is made from 1/2" round, and it slides into two 24" long pipe nipples welded to the angle iron frame. The newly made back wall: This is made from 1 layer of 1" kaowool, tied to a piece of expanded metal with stainless steel wire. The expanded metal is tack welded to legs made from 3/8" square stock. The expanded metal has a square hole near the bottom. If one day I need to heat long pieces of metal, then I can poke a hole in the kaowool to pass through. Heating some 3/4" rebar: Gas valves and supply to burners: It is hard to see in the picture, but there is an idle circuit controlled by the ball valve with the black handle. Closing the valve reduces the pressure to the burners to about 1-2 psi (depending on the main pressure of course) which keeps the forge interior hot while consuming almost no gas. When heating metal, I can close the idle valve right before taking the work piece out of the forge. When the workpiece goes back in, I can open the valve again for instant heat. At the manifold with the four yellow ball valves going to each burner, there is a 4-port junction. The top port is plugged, but soon I'll install a second pressure gauge there, to be able to monitor the gas pressure at the burners. It will also allow tuning the idle circuit better to save more gas. The forge, in its temporary home on my work bench: Practicing shaping some tongs: Overall Notes The forge body is too long at 24". I found that I only use the front 10-12" and since putting on the door and back wall, I have never used more than the front 2 burners. If I were to build another one, it would be shorter, maybe 16-18" max, with only 2 burners. With the movable back wall, however, the excessive length is not really a problem; it just makes the forge harder to move around. The burners seem to work ok, but I don't know if they can bring the forge to welding temperature. The hottest I have seen it is very bright orange or yellow. One of my next welding projects will be to make a dedicated stand on wheels for the forge, to free up my metal work bench, and to make the forge less of a lug to move around. Overall I'm pretty happy with this thing. It only took 10 times longer to make than I thought it would. I finally feel like I will be doing some actual forging this winter, instead of making and collecting the tools needed for forging. Comments and criticisms welcomed! All the best Markus

Here is my Chinese 7x12 mini lathe (Sieg C2 model 300) purchased on sale at Princess Auto here in Sudbury. I used it to learn something about machining metal, and later to bore out 1:12 tapers in cast iron plumbing couplers to make nozzles for gas forge burners. It's a bare bones but good little lathe for the money. The only "upgrades" I've done to it are the 4-jaw chuck, carriage stop, and quick change tool post (all ordered through LittleMachineShop.com).

Solid advice, Frosty. I always set up good ventilation (open windows or open doors, and an oscillating fan or two) when working with chemicals. Markus

You might try something like this: http://www.rona.ca/en/stripper---paint-stripper-0776170--1 I've had good success with products like it (methylene chloride solvents) to take off all kinds of old paint and varnishes from metal parts. Just a few minutes after you lather that stuff on, the old paint will start to bubble up and separate. For tough paint (e.g. paint that may now be baked on... :) ) you could leave it for a few hours, or over night. The old paint should come off with hand scraping and brushing. If everything doesn't come off in the first shot, give it a second "bath". Prior to leaning about this paint stripping chemical, I made a huge mess in my garage by using a belt sander and wire cup brush to strip paint off an old propane cylinder, which eventually became my gas forge. Needless to say, these days I get everything off that I can using chemical methods, before resorting to brute force mechanical methods. Markus

Thanks, monomoit!

Azur, I was just reading a book called "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander G. Weygers. (You can find this book for $13.59 on Amazon. It is filled with all kinds of good information for learning, I would definitely recommend getting a copy if you can.) In his book, Weygers describes a simple forge he built at his house. Here is a picture and some text from page 99 of his book, which describe what he did. (Source: "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander G. Weygers, printed in 1997, ISBN 0-89815-896-6) Looks like an interesting idea. Maybe it will be useful for you to get started with forging, until you can get some bellows working to your satisfaction. Markus

That swing arm is definitely in the works on my end! Maybe even two swing arms... :)

Good tips on how to make the stand mobile. Thanks.

So far the anvil seems quiet enough, with the piece of rubber mat between it and the stand, just like what you suggested, Neil. Good tip about the hand cart wheels, VaughnT. That sounds like the way to go. Now I just need another Saturday where I'm too lazy to practice forging.

Thank you, VaughnT. The legs are empty. I did some light work on the anvil today, and I liked how it worked as-is. The whole stand weighs over 100#; do you think sand + oil would be a benefit in this case?

Very nice stand. What kind of tool holders are you thinking about putting on it? I also just completed my anvil stand (mine looks quite similar to yours actually). One thing I am trying to figure out is a way to move the stand + anvil unit, with less difficulty and pain. I do my forging in the garage. My idea is to be able to move the cars out onto the driveway, roll out the anvil, forge and tools, and be ready to light up the forge in about 5 minutes. The forge is on wheels already, but moving the stand + anvil is mega difficult to say the least. Any ideas? Markus

Daniel -- Thanks. Jymm -- I have not yet worked at the anvil enough to know the answer to your question. (I would guess my total time working is only around 30-40 hours.) I find myself working at the anvil from all sides, depending what I am doing. I expect with time I'll settle into more routine work patterns, as I discover how the material, tools, and I all work together. The stand design allows the anvil to be rotated 180 degrees, so I will try out your suggestion to see how it is. Markus

Hi all, Just thought I'd share some photos of the anvil stand that I finished today. I started this project about 3 weeks ago, but got called away on a work trip. This weekend I finally managed to finish it off. Here it is: The top is a 12" x 15" x 1 1/2" steel plate. I got it from a local steel fabricator for cheap. It was originally a long strip, 48" long by 12" wide, but they cut it into 3 pieces for $25. So one day I can build two more anvil stands with the other two pieces. The legs are 2" x 5" rectangular tube with 1/4" wall thickness. The angle of the legs (~9 degrees) is such that all vertical force applied at the top of the stand is transmitted directly down into the floor. If the legs were angled out more, then vertical forces would try to spread the legs apart, giving the stand some springiness. Using wide pipe stock, and keeping the leg angle so that the tops of the legs vertically overlap with the leg bottoms, eliminates the springiness. The feet are 7 1/2" long pieces of 3" x 1/2" strap. I put holes in the feet in case one day I want to permanently fix the stand in my shop. The welding was done using a 120V Lincoln Electric Migpak 140 with 0.035" flux core wire. Taking some cues from forum topics and chat discussions here on IFI, I didn't bolt the anvil to the stand. The 1" x 1/4" steel straps keep it from rotating or walking during hammering. So far it seems the anvil is heavy enough that it does not need to be bolted down. If it turns out it does need to, then it will be an easy modification. Thanks in particular to TechnicusJoe for fruitful discussions. Last night when I seated the anvil inside the straps, I found that it rocked back and forth unacceptably. The anvil base was not perfectly flat. So I flipped over the anvil, and using another piece of plate as a flat reference, I ground down the base to make it flat. About 30 minutes of careful grinding eliminated the rocking motion completely. To make the fit even more snug, I cut a piece of rubber floor mat and put it between the anvil and the stand. This anvil (a 217# Wilkinsons) does not have a very loud ring to begin with, but the rubber seemed to make it a bit quieter nonetheless. Thanks for looking. Comments and criticisms welcomed! All the best Markus

You could find an anvil that you don't like so much for your fullering and drawing out! I am also a beginner, and I use a dinged up Vulcan for experimenting and trying out things that I am not so confident with. Markus

I built 4 of these for my gas forge, and they work great: http://ronreil.abana.org/burner.gif I added chokes to my burners, to allow adjusting the flame to neutral or reducing, like the foreground burner in this photo: http://ronreil.abana.org/axchoke.jpg You should probably read all of Ron Reil's web site. All your questions about gas forge construction will be answered, but not always spoon fed to you... you'll have to think and spend time trying out some stuff on your own. It's a great way to pass a Saturday afternoon. As soon as you make your first working burner, you'll get all kinds of ideas for things you'll want to try on the next one, and so on. Pretty soon you'll be able to make a burner from random parts you have lying around. http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml The hardest part (at last for me) was making the tapered nozzles. One method is to heat up a piece of pipe to forging temperature, and then forge out the taper with hammer and anvil. It was a bit of a cach 22 for me, because I was building the burners to be able to forge in the first place! I ended up making a really crude & ugly, but functional enough, burner nozzle, which I used in the forge body I had already built to make 4 nicer nozzles. Since then, I have managed to acquire a 7x12 mini-lathe, and have found that it's easy to make very nice tapered nozzles from straight 3/4" black iron pipe couplings. The advantage with a mini-lathe is you can bore out beautiful tapers at exactly the required 1:12 slope. Then you can use the remaining threaded end of the coupling to attached your nozzles to the business end of your burner. This is stronger than using set screws to fix the nozzle in place, but requires changing Reil's design a bit because you have to leave on both threaded ends on your 3/4" pipe nipple. Best of success! Markus

A rust removal method that looks very easy, cheap (but possibly slower) is to use a molasses solution. For example: Basically you take a 1:10 or 1:20 solution of water & molasses, and immerse your rusted parts in it for a couple of days to a week. Then you take the part out of the liquid, and rinse, brush or pressure wash the rust off. Repeat if necessary. There are many other YouTube videos showing how people do it. I'm going to try the molasses on a rusty anvil I have, and I'll report back on the results when complete. Markus

Frosty -- Upon closer inspection, it appears the small anvil does not have a steel plate on the face. The ridge from casting goes right up the heel of the anvil and meets the face. The face is ground flat. The face hangs over the sides a little bit (about 1/16-1/8") which is why at first it looked like a steel plate. However it rings, so a least it's not cast iron. Cast tool steel? Markus

Mac -- Yep, the small anvil bounces a small tack hammer pretty nicely. Agreed regarding the cleanup. I am thinking about using a cup brush to get the rust off the face. Next, I am thinking about grinding the casting ridges off the horn. As for finishing the rest of the body, I was thinking about using paint stripper to ease off the black paint, then cup brush to remove all rust, then some clear coat to preserve the nice bare steel look. Should look alright when done. I'll mount it on a smaller steel tripod stand and keep it handy. Markus

Biggun -- Happy dance? I was freaking out! My wife didn't really get it, though, but listened politely while I explained how cool this is. :D Markus

Had a lucky day today. I got this anvil for $200: This is a Wilkinsons 217# anvil (1 x 112 + 3 x 28 + 21 = 217). It has a mild ring to it (more like a "ping" or "pink") and the rebound is very good over the entire face. Is there any way to determine the age of this anvil? And this smaller anvil for $40: I couldn't find any markings on this one, but it is around 40-50# and the face appears to be a steel plate. The horn still has a ridge from casting. It has a very pure ring, like a bell. I am pretty certain it is a real anvil and not an ASO. Is there any way to tell for sure? How could its origins be identified? And these tools another $20: I came across these items completely unexpectedly when I was browsing the local Kijiji pages, while taking a break from work. The ad was only a couple of hours old, and the items were up for best offer. I felt a little rush go up the back of my neck. When I called the seller, she told me that a few people had already called, and that they were planning to come see the items later in the day. After a short discussion regarding the current offers, I learned that someone was offering $100 for both the anvils, and that she was planning on giving them up for that. I told her I'd pay at least twice that for the big anvil, and that I'd be happy to come have a look even if the anvils were spoken for. She said she didn't have a lot of time due to various things, but if I came before 3pm it would be alright. It was 1pm when I called. I hung up and jumped in the car and mobilized to the location as fast as possible. The seller turned out to be a very nice lady. Her husband had taken ill, and would no longer be able to work. He had taken a weekend blacksmith course years ago, but his equipment had sat unused for years and years since then. She was selling some of the heavier tools from his workshop one by one. Anyway she said I could have the big anvil for $200. I didn't say a word and immediately handed over four $50 bills. I ended up buying the small one and the tools as well. She also had a Champion 400 blower in very good working condition, up for best offer. I did not buy it since I have no need for it; I use only propane at the moment. I have been reading some comments by Thomas Powers. He is right, the nice anvils are out there, you just have to watch and wait. I've been waiting for over a year for something like this, and I'm extremely thankful that I lucked out today. I am looking forward to putting aside the 150# Vulcan (with a dinged up face and chipped edges) that I have been using so far, and trying out this Wilkinsons. All the best Markus (P.S. Edited the weight. Originally I said it was 202# but that was wrong. It turns out a quarter is 28# not 23#.)

I like your forge! I should have done what you did, and started with a pile of bricks forge myself. Instead, I spent some months of my free time (and most of my fun money allowance) designing and building a forge modelled after Ron Reil's 4-burner forge (http://ronreil.abana.org/Forge1.shtml). While building it was a lot of fun, I am now finding that a large forge like this is a bit ungainly for the various small forgings I have been working on as I develop my blacksmith skills. Had I known about the IFI forums before jumping in and starting construction, I would have noticed the often repeated wisdom of "start small" when it comes to forge building. On the bright side it is never too late to pile up some bricks and make a small convenient forge. In the words of Edison: "To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." (On the other hand: http://steampunkoper...he-the-oatmeal/ :) ) Best regards Markus

Hello everyone, I got back home from vacation yesterday, and this morning was back to my routine of browsing the online classifieds to see what kind of tools are selling in the area. This 409# anvil caught my eye: The seller wants $1150 or best offer for it. I currently have a ~125# Vulcan with substantially dinged up edges. This big one looks like it would be nicer to work with. I made a (low) offer of $1.35/lb, or ~$560... My reasoning: It is located far enough from me (350 miles) and shipping will be pricey. There is some damage to the anvil, it looks like someone used a torch on parts of it. Origin and age of the anvil are unknown. A brand new unscathed anvil of similar weight, from a reputable maker, can be purchased for not that much more than his price (e.g. the Ozark pattern for $1500, and possibly others of high quality but lesser weight). Was I out of line by making that offer? Can anyone identify the anvil, its maker and age? Your insights would be appreciated. Thanks & best regards Markus

Thanks for the responses. What would be involved in repairing the heel of this anvil? It looks like a new piece of steel plate would have to be welded on. Probably a big forge weld, not a job for an arc welder, I am guessing. Regards, Markus