Mikey98118

Most of the attractive nuisance building schemes where being warned against on home casting news groups eighteen years ago; yet a fresh generation of self proclaimed 'innovators' are still featuring them on YouTube. Ain't ignorance such bliss?

But you will be; welcome to the hot seat; none of us ever intended to end up here, but we're always glad to see a fellow traveler

Morgan brand 2600 reasonably tough and highly insulating firebricks can be coated with zirconium silicate and 5% bentonite clay; this completely changes everything. Morgan 2600 bricks are avalable on eBay, in a variety of thicknesses, down to 1/2"; so it's not too late to keep you 2300 bricks from being ruined. With a little added work you can have your cake, and eat it too.

Zirconium silicate (with 5% bentonite clay as binder) will beat any brand of furnace cement all hollow, and can be found, for a lot less money, at most potter's supply stores. Move the hand torch--without the tube-- close to the burner opening, These modifications will allow your son to pound on some steel for a short while, before your present refractory fails. The Burners 101, and Forges 101 threads will give allow the direction needed to make good decisions on what kind of burner and forge you want to build for him. DO NOT neglect to read up on "T" burners. Good luck helping your boy. Spoiler: Morgan brand 2600 F highly insulating and reasonably tough fire bricks ( cheap from eBay) can be hardened against flame impingement with the coating above, and then cemented together. Any worn out hole saw (or a carbide encrusted hole saw from Harbor Freight Tools), makes a good fast built forge. Choosing a simple 1/2" "T" will set you up best for mounting the burner on a small brick forge. " burner will go vary well in such a forge

Square Mail, Thanks for including building instructions. I look forward to lots of smiths choosing to build your version of Mongo burners. As I never felt that the original Mongo burners were worth looking into, the joke is on me

I don't foresee a lot of call for them, or much of anything else (other than observatory equipment) at such a high altitude The Denver area has a large enough population that high altitude naturally aspirated burners matter there. I would suppose, that burners for ridiculously high altitude could be covered with fan- blown models; the problem of lower heat output could be overcome with polypropylene fuel?

Okay, alright; I've got a bad case of cylinder envy, too!

I felt pretty awkward about the whole subject, and am sure the idiot who decided to put on a nasty rant through a commercial site is reaping what he sowed, I'm glad that the member shelved his anger, and continued on toward achieving his original goal, despite his outrage at the affront; it makes me feel all happy inside

I'm not sure that frequent vibration from an anvil is good for a forge's ceramic parts...

Actually, blacksmith450 has proven to know more about Mongo burners than I do What I can see from the flame photos, is steady improvement, just like blacksmith 450 had with his burners; all the more reason to ask him to take over this discussion.

Thomas, Please note that I don't intend to denigrate the Sandia forge design; it was a very successful forge in its day, and a well worthwhile forge to buy at auction in this day; I only mean to point out that anyone building a forge with today's burners have better choices available now.

I hope that any of you who are interested in building blacksmith-450's Mongo burner, will also questions about it, and encourage him to popularize his burner design, and his insights about how he does such a fine job of tuning his burners to make "the magic flame."

Frosty, By "slip dry" I was only referring to how able to be easily cast this formula should prove. I suspect that vibration of this formula would make a neat end run around the settling out problems inherent in typical refractory formulas containing sieved grog. Being able to vibrate without settling out should not only allow the complex shapes of slip casting to work, but also allow much less water content to be used. This is the way I plan to use the formula to make tile, crucibles, and multi flame nozzles. Thank you for posting information and a flame photo of your latest burner on this thread. I think "seeing is believing" for most folks, and the more kinds of successful burners they see, the better

Chile forges are expensive; and IMHO worth every penny. However, I don't agree with the prices on their stands, nor for paying the shipping costs for those heavy monstrosities. For that kind of money, you could buy, and pay for shipping on, a heavy duty stainless steel shop cart. If we are going to pay more, we should receive more.

I don't agree with the air openings, nor the choice pf flame nozzle; that is neither here nor there. The fact is that he has achieved a proper flame from a simple burner design, and I agree wholeheartedly with that. As to the rest; I probably have something more to learn

I think that's a lot of flame from such a simple burner! Maybe, you should right up a set of instructions for exactly how you do it. I would be pleased to see this photo, and anything you care to write down about it, on the Burners 101 thread

Frosty, You have thought about how zirconium silicate/ Veegum refractory could be used to make a practical "slip cast" burner, yes? this could make it practical for people to create tapered burner shapes at home with nothing more than hand tools.

What most of our member could really use are photos of the forge in action. Remember that lots of other people are still trying to decide on what forge to buy.

With 5% Veegum or bentonite, zirconium silicate should work well as troweled-on coating. 3.5% Veegum or bentinite in a zirconium silicate refractory can be molded like clay to make an armored hot face; it can probably be successfully used as a castable refractory, if it is vibrated during casting. Either way, you would want to rigidize the ceramic blanket layer its cast in, molded molded onto, or coated on. I would be inclined to coat the insulation first, and follow that up by molding a plastic layer in place, wants the coating was fired.

It was also invented back when a Reil burner was the best deign available; we are a long way past that.

Have you considered buying a good burner, which usually proves the hard part; and building the forge, which (if you faithfully follow instructions) is the easy part?

I think you are doing as well with your forges as you did with your burners

IMO,hat the Sandia forge design boils down to, is a question of benefit versus cost, not the cost of parts and trouble, but the cost engineering wise. If there were no other way to recuperate some of the energy flooding out of the exhaust, than this forge, would be a sound investment. However radiant recuperation of some of that energy, is cheap and easy via re-emission. That being available, how much of a forge's design do we want to be dictated to recuperating some of the exhaust gas's energy this way?

The other side of the coin is that,because it is isn't a necessity, the flame nozzle can be treated as an add on; it doesn't have to be made immediately, so long as as the forge is made with its eventual inclusion is kept in mind. Furthermore, the forge insulation can be used as a flame nozzle, if it is rigidized, and a hole of the proper diameter is coated with refractory; thus acting as a temporary flame nozzle.

Grumpy Biker states "Okay , strike my last post..." Well, no; your last post brings up a couple of questions well worth answering. the answer is that a flame nozzle isn't a necessity, when the burner is placed within equipment, but it is always worthwhile. "Also there seems to be a lot of opinion of how far back the burner should be set from the inside of the forge." Yes, there is a lot of different opinion on just how far is far enough. I like to keep it 1" deep within the insulation, and to keep the insulation 1/4" away from the nozzle, all the way around. Am I wrong to assume that each burner also has to be tuned to each specific forge it's placed into? You are right. That the shape & size & materials the forge is made of also greatly effects burner performance? You are right. I ask because I think a lot of us newbies run towards the idea of a "plug & play" set up. The closest you can come to "plug and play" is to pick tried proven burners and forges, and then follow their directions exactly; otherwise you must learn a whole lot more, in order to do things your way. "The foolish idea of placing an order for an entry level forge & burner and are disappointed when you can't just hook it up & go." That's because entry level forges are a good long way from "plug and play." "Everything is much more involved that it appears on the surface." You are right. Glad there are folks who spell it out for people like me who at times feel "in over their heads". Nothing worth doing is ever easy. So much to learn & consider before you can get to the point where a person is ready to move & shape metal properly. I used to tell guys that steel work just amounts to mastering a thousand simple tricks. Of course I always assured my bosses that is was brain surgery and rocket science. It is still "the best of times and the worst of times." It's is entirely up to you which one you see, when you look back upon it in your old age...