Mikey98118

Just as there are only a few really high in forges on the market; here are equally few really bad designs out there. The bulk of forges can be improved to any desired degree; it gets easier all the time. Basically what you purchase in most commercial forge is a fast start toward your goal; all else is negotiable.

Zirconium's cubic crystalline phase is smaller than its hexagonal phase.

Both of these materials are important pottery ingredients. If you can't find them through a local potter's supply store, go on line and get them from Seattle Pottery Supply. I have not found another source anywhere near as good as them. There are already a couple of guys on here who are experimenting with zirconium silicate and bentonite clay. As to the science behind it: The Digital articles explain the why of how well these simple formulas work. All that is left is the science of re-emissive coating materials. There are several metals, and their oxides, which are outstanding light radiation emitters, when heated. Zirconium is close to the best (cerium is number one). But zirconium, is also a preeminent insulator at incandescent temperatures. Thin Zirconium coatings (up to .020" can be used as protective coatings on crucibles, without interfering with heat transfer through the wall). Coatings as thin as .040" are used as insulating layers. Every additional bit of thickness increases the insulating value of a zirconium coating, or refractory. BUT zirconium changes its crystaline structure from cubic to hexagonal before it ever reaches forge heats; it then changes back to cubic structure on the way back to room temperature. So, zirconium tends to pulverize any hard refractory that it is included in; very small amounts of very fine particles can actually improve refractory toughness, by creating micro-cracks, but that is not Germain to this discussion. Zirconia mixtures (zirconium oxide) Can have its crystalline structure stabilized, but that used to be very expensive; it isn't anymore, but during the decades it was, zirconium silicate became a popular reasonably priced substitute; this is because the manufacturing process produces particles so fine that they won't create cracks in a refractory formula, making an end-run around to whole problem. A few forward thinking guys on IFI have been combining zirconium silicate, with various binders, to make a superior "kiln wash" for years, but now that we have really effective binders available, they will go far beyond that.

'Course you know that it probably means you will go right on being asked questions...welcome to the pack brother

As to your present half brick, it will do fine as part of an external baffle wall in front of you forge opening.

Back in 2004, I barely decided to recommend use of ITC-100 as a heat reflecting final coating, and even then I recommended separating the colloidal part of its contents from the crude particles in its formula, by adding more water to a little at a time, in a clear water glass. Without that separation, it is in my estimation, little better at heat reflection than Plistex, etc., and mechanically far less tough. Today, this product costs about four times what it cost back then; and works no better. I did not speak out against ITC-100 for all this time for the same reason I gave it a qualified recommendation in the beginning; there was no better performing substitute at a reasonable price; this is no longer true. Zirconium silicate's crystaline structure is about two-thirds zirconium, bound with about one third silicon in an industrial process that only produces colloidal grade particles. It is mechanically tough, use rated for 4550 F, highly heat reflecting, and insulating. It is supposedly flux resistive. Zircopax is CHEAP in comparison to ITC-100. When I ran across the Digitalfire article on how to use Vegum T (best) or benonite clay (acceptible) as the perfect binder for zirconium silicate (to make everything from thermal armor to thin heat reflective coatings) ITC-100's days became numbered. Plistex and other such coatings will go right on being used, because they are effective, economical, and easily used, but the bully on the block has just met the new kid in town, and he's going down!!! The Themal ceramic K26 brick has roughly equal insulating abilities with ceramic wool at 2000 F. Unlike old style insulating fire brick it will withstand rapid thermal cylcing, and is mechanically tough enough, that a thin coating of a castable refractory, or the zirconium silicate mixture above, will bring it up to snuff for flame impingement in a forge. On top of this, a single brick with shipping is about $11 from eBay. I would call this a typical "to good to be true" deal, if Morgan hadn't taken half a century to perfect it.

Thank you for the photos; I like that you included a link for the information on its parent thread, so that readers can easily find it in future

Isn't it about time that a photo, like this one for instance, found its way onto the Forges 101 thread?

Overdoing the burner size, will not melt you lining; it will be much more inclined to turn your forge into a flame thrower. However, naturally aspirated burners tend to have very long turn-down ranges. To make a long story short, a 1//2" "T" burner will do fine in that forge, so don't get sucked into looKing through the Burners 101 thread. Go straight to the T" burner thread, so you can spend the added reading time in the Forges 101 thread, which you badly need to read RIGHT NOW. That is a great beginning on an excellent forge, so please learn what else you need to know, before it ends badly. For instance, that hard half brick needs to be replaced by a Thermal Ceramics K26 brick (eBay), before the insulation is rigidized, and the whole interior gets a hard heat reflective coating.

Customcutter, Your stainless work, so far, looks like a good beginning for your burners. The second photo shows two sets of stainless steel parts, which can be used as mixing tubes, air chokes, and (with further cutting) spacer rings for stepped flame nozzles; or you can try to build tapered flame nozzles from them.

Every new photo shows a better working forge than the last; excellent. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your choice of carry handle; that is a subject on many builders minds, but it hardly ever comes up. I think this is mainly because, by the time we get to it, the urge to be none overwhelms us.

Probably; but you need to understand that no commercial forge is perfect, as purchased. Nothing prevents you from upgrading, as Frosty mentioned. There are a VERY FEW commercial forges that are a slam dunk for heat; their price ranges start at double what you are looking at now.

All worthwhile ideas, guys. This new refractory should rewrite the rules for forges even more radically than for burners. These are exiting times. My second favorite new burner (Vortex) is best positioned facing up; the old refractory choices made that an expensive proposition. "Thin thermal "armor" alone is going to be such a game changer! Customcutter, There is a wealth of solid information in the book, but why was a question it limited to the burner section. I thought heating equipment like forges were obvious, or would become so, as they were constructed. It took a lot more years to understand that nothing is obvious to anxious people; and first time builders are always anxious. This is why the two 101 threads are heavy on the why of things. You wrote " I'm trying to make better ones, so that my forge and burners are as efficient as I can make them." That makes a good direction, but a poor goal. The sharper you get the faster you will see a better way to do things; but as often as not the vision comes just after you have done something already. Better is the enemy of good enough. Both of those dogs can push your sled; just don't get too fond of either one, lest the other bite you

Good; thank you, Lars. This is the kind of information potential buyers need to know.

I went to their website. Their prices are about mid-range. From the little I could see, they looked well made. I don't like the burner design, but they seem to put out a hot flame. There looks to be a high alumina kiln shelf dividing the vertical space in the forge; that could be a very bright idea, if you have occasional need to do three dimensional work in the forge, but don't want to pay a high fuel bill the rest of the time; otherwise, not so much. It will help, but physics cannot be ignored; a bigger space costs more to heat. I just don't think they have been available long enough in our marketplace, to make a good call on whether or not to buy.

Just as long as a final photo of the completed burner, with flame, ends up in the Burners 101 thread, where it belongs. I believe this design will bcome the burner of choice for most people.

You didn't offend me. I just suffer increasing bouts of irony from so much time watching the parade pass. And yes, the book not being very available frustrates me too. In the meantime, information must be passed forward. So, as to your questions: You asked " When you say to aim the flame approx 1/3 of the way in from the kiln shelf edge, I would assume that you mean on the same side of the forge as the burners are located on based on..." Yes, the same side. This slows down the flame, without stopping its swirling path within the forge, and is less likely to allow it to impinge on the work, which is usually placed in the center of the forge floor. You stated "However, every picture I see shows a burner mounted top dead center aimed at the work, or they are mounted slightly off center pointed directly across the forge." Positioning the burner straight down from TDC will result in the flame splitting into two swirls of left and right hand spirals. A friend of mine uses this position in his forge with success. But his burner is turned down very low, so that his flame is short and slow; otherwise his stock would suffer from it. He can get away with the slow heating this engenders, because he only heat 1/4" square bar to red heat. If he used larger stock and needed to work faster amd/or hotter, the straight down flame would have to be turned up, and would impinge on the stock, causing a lot of trouble. So, why are so many burners positioned at TDC? That's the way most of the first gas forges came out; since the manufacturers don't like to change anything, they still are. If automobile manufacturers played the game that way, road apples would be a big problem on today's highways. Not that this is the only reason for TDC aiming; in the past, it made sense in some brick forges, and small box forges. With the new choices in ceramic materials, that may change. Mounting a burner slightly off center, and pointed directly across the forge, would cause the flame to impinge on the weaker wall structure sooner in its path, rather than later. The whole point of your forge's floor is to provide a tougher area for the stock to rest on; one that is resistant, to impacts, flux, and flame impingement. You want the flame to impinge as long as possible on the floor, to save where and tear on the forge walls. Essentially, your burner and forge are a pile of decisions that are made wisely--or not. If you don't know the reason why someone is doing something different in a design, find out, before copying it. People are usually worried about their forge not getting hot enough, but that can always be fixed; there are a hundred ways to do it. What they should be wary of, is having to look at a forge full of wrong choices, every time they go to use it; that is what gets most forges replaced

An orange interior, without using a heat reflective coating in the forge, is pretty good.

Make sure the parts are lined up properly before making the first tack. Leave sufficient height in the saddle; at least equal to the width of the reducer opening. Tacks are temporary, but finish welds aren't, so double check before doing them.

There is always a perfectly logical reason not to follow sound advice. During all the years that book was in circulation, there were people who just couldn't make up their minds whether to cough up a twenty, or take a chance on a pirate site. Now the book is out of circulation, and people have to pay hundreds, or down load from a pirate site. When those few copies are gone, things will get even weirder. I spent two years of my life learning what I needed to know, and then two more years writing that book, so that some people could be very happy with what they found in it. There just isn't time or strength enough, for me to worry about all of the others anymore.

Circumstances alters cases. I have seen sales jerks push stuff off on the unsuspecting, which they called "high alumina," which couldn't qualify for the term in any reasonable universe; so, start with, "do you trust the seller?" I buy from Seattle Pottery Supply, and have never had a problem. High alumina kiln shelves are tough and reasonably heat reflective; they also stop flux. But, you can do well enough for less trouble with Kast-O-lite 30, and probably for less money in a small enough forge. The main reason I like the shelves in tunnel forges, is that they can be conveniently trapped in the forge shell. But, what if you're including a forge door on one end? That kind of ruins your ability to trap easily the shelve. Finally, the newest insulating firebrick can now be given a heavy coating of zirconium silicate, and up your whole game. You gots to read some before you jumps...

In the five gallon propane forge, I think I used 2" from TDC, along with aiming the burner vary carefully, but 3" should work out okay. However, you only want to aim the flame about one-third of the way in from the kiln shelf edge. You want avoid aiming the burner at your work pieces. Even though there will be no VISIBLE flame impingement from a properly tuned burner, there can still be super heated gas molecules, which can chemically interact with the metal; why take the chance of going there? Okay; you could do much worse than to use that old book. Everything in the text is straight forward. There is zero padding, obfuscation, and B.S in it. BUT, the information is also dated; my designs were the last word, then. But a lot more words have been added my a lot of clever people, since. You need to read Burners 101, and Forges 101 threads if you want know all those changes; should you want all the edge you can get. If you just want rock-on equipment, it will deliver. Getting the most out of Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns The first thing you won't find mentioned in the book, is that a few years after it came out there was a quiet revolution in rotary hand tools (electric die grinders to our generation), and their accessories, which changed from over priced and underfed, to powerful and cheap. So, for get using a small angle grinder. The next thing is Larry Zoeller's change over to 1/8" schedule 80 pipe nipples for the gas tubes; this makes a more powerful gas accelerator, which can be threaded directly into, for the MIG tip. These advantages are well worth having to special order the part, rather than picking the schedule 40 version at your locale hardware store. After thousands of burners were built around the world, my six un-puckered, and I started making the burners with only three air openings, no matter what their sizes; this configuration is more powerful than five or six openings, which I used as an added safety feature, back then. Finally, I would recommend using two 1/2" burners (instead of the single 3/4") with a movable internal baffle wall in any five gallon propane cylinder forge, it will allow you to heat with half the fuel for most of your work.You need well contained heat in your forge; not blasting into your shop. I shouldn't need to say that the smaller non-returnable Freon or helium cylinders make a better size first forge, but it's no big deal. It can always be a second forge. I think most smiths who even heed this advice, simply end up building the five gallon size later on. So, most people will just reverse the cycle, and arrive to the same end point

Well, okay then; I feel better now. Are to going to use two rings of aiming screws, too?

Easy burner ports Every since that evil heartless Larry Zoeller (villain, fiend, and cad) started using conduit locking rings to hold short pipe nipples in place on forge shells, I have been unable to convince most people to do things the hard way--er...I mean the right way-- and go through the minor trouble to: (1) Grind each burner opening in the shell into an oval shape, so that each burner port (pipe nipple) could be positioned at the proper angle for the burner flame to impinge at just the right spot on the forge floor. (2) Mark and cut one end of each burner port (still a pipe nipple) at just the right angle to match the forge shell's oval openings, cut them into castellated shapes; bend the end tabs at right angles, and drill them, so that pop rivets could affix them to the forge shell. (3) Drill and thread two sets of holes for thumb screws (not those low brow bolts) to keep the burners trapped at their desired angles. All this, just to make your work easier. Poor old Frankenburner is so disappointed (double hiss)! Therefore, I am not about to mention that a hole drilled off center through a pipe cap could bring your easy way up to par with the RIGHT WAY. No, no; in a just world, it is better that all you lazy people just suffer...besides, it would allow you to aim just as well with only one set of aiming screws, and that would just be wrong.

Fumed silica is just one more form of glass. Once it is mixed in water, becoming colloidal silica, there can be shelf life issues, but my bottle of silica rigidizer (colloidal silica and blue dye) has lasted for years, without settling out. The shelf life problems that have been reported, have occurred due to super concentrated containers of colloidal silica being stored too long; these become concentrated bases, causing chemical reactions. Once mixed with water, do not allow the solution to freeze, or it will settle out.