Mikey98118

My first sci-fi story was one of the Skylark series; I got it from the Rialto CA city library, around fifth or sixth grade. Eventually I bought all of E E Doc Smith's books. Heinlein came a decade later. Yeah, I remember the "age of the atom" craze in the fifties. Kathy and I liked the ant monster movies that came out of it best. We used to watch reruns of them on TV in the seventies. Then Mexican versions of them came out, like one with giant devouring scorpions derailing trains; they were hilarious

Yes; I read all his books that I found in print. I even agreed with about half of what he thought (the other half was appalling). Sooner or later it is time to pass the torch. If the next generation does not reach out and take it, tough stuff, I don't have to care

The cookie monster thanks you, and will comply

And still do. I am still learning subtleties from Frosty

How true that is, Frosty! I recommended high alumina kiln shelves as forge floors for decades, and I still would today, if they hadn't become too darned expensive. I laughed at insulating fire bricks just as long...until Morgan K26 insulating firebricks hit the market. Everything changes, including pricing on new versus not so new things. The one thing that never changes is ignorance tax, placed on people who will not do a little research before they buy stuff

No, Rose; they are not similar, but they are complimentary. Kast-O-lite 30 is a superior high heat high alumina insulating refractory, which we do not suggest be used in anything thinner than 1/2" thick layers, although some people get by with 1/4" thick layers, over rigidized ceramic wool. Plistix 900 is a high alumina finish coating used to seal ceramic wool fibers against become airborne, and creating toxic dusk in your lungs; protects the surfaces of ceramic board and Morgan K26 insulating bricks from flame damage, and even reflect flame heat from the surface of Kast-O-lite 30 refractory (among others); Its two main uses are to seal other refractory surfaces, and also to create a thin heat reflective coating. Both of these products prove quite superior for their intended uses. Hope this helps, Mikey

Buzzkill You missed very little. In fact it is so close to a perfect flame as to be best left alone at this point, for anymore tinkering will require looking at the forge's atmosphere and exhaust first. No, there aren't multiple flame envelopes, but one envelope. What you are seeing is the flame's internal and external surfaces, because these burner are designed to burn from the exterior, as normal; but also from its interior surface. Also, there is some evidence at the forward end of that single envelope has metallic oxides burning; with such a new flame retention nozzle, that is likely to be left over particles from cutting, etc. Especially because the nozzle is not yet fully heated. However, I suspect that his flame is running a touch lean. The only cure for this is playing around with his burner, until he learns all its ends and out. In other words, time is the best cure for that. As to the forge floor, Frosty is quite right. The only brick that should be used as forge floors are Morgan K26 insulated bricks, and even these should have a coating of Kast-O-lite 30. As to the Perlite, it is a good idea so long as there is insulating brick or ceramic wool separating it from the heat of the forge interior. I am totally in favor of Perlite as tertiary insulation. I am also in favor of increasing the exterior of a forge's body (steel shell). enough to include that tertiary Perlite insulation. The number one mistake of newbies is making oversize forges. However the second most common mistake is not allowing enough room for primary, secondary, and tertiary insulation layers. Heat reflective coatings are also a good idea, but are what I call add-ons; that is anything external or internal that can be done to a forge, after its construction.

Are you sure you didn't mean to write insulation boards, when you wrote bricks? Assuming that you meant to state boards, the answer is probably not, for safety's sake. However, a finish coat of Plistix 900 will settle the issue, and pay for itself many times over in increased efficiency. Your forge will get hotter, and do so faster, allowing you to turn your gas pressure down. After you rigidize all the ceramic wool, you still need to seal coat its surface. The Plistix is good for that job too.

it looks like Greg gave up, and moved on. So, for those of you who copied the photo of his burner; while his air openings were less than perfect, they were probably adequate to induce one hundred percent combustion in a single flame envelope. The photo also showed that the flame was centered over the flame retention nozzle's exit. So, what was missing? Nothing in the burner's construction. However the amount of overhang of the flame retention nozzle past the end of the mixing tube must be not less than the inside diameter of the mixing tube, and no more than the equal of its inside diameter plus 1/16". All he probably needed to do was shorten the length of the nozzle's overhang less than 1/8" to tune the burner properly.

In the meantime, two 1/2" burners are sufficient to heat a five gallon forge, such as the one in my book. However, your burner flame needs a little tweaking to come up to snuff. You also mentioned uncertainty about where to place them in such a forge. Separate the forge body length into thirds, and place one burner on the line between front and middle third. Place the other burner on the line between middle and rear third. Next comes what way to point them. The very best position is two inches above the forge floor and facing upward and inward; this allows the longest distance for combustion to complete before super-heated oxygen molecules can impinge on the material you are heating. However, with burners this small you could even place the burners at top dead center and get by with it You need to get back to us about tweaking your burner to get the hottest flame; it probably will not take much. Mikey

To Greg, While I was reading page 125 of Burners 101 your thread disappeared. I am more than wiling to answer your questions, if you will post them again.

Oh...I thought that was what he did. As a gas forge, it was an interesting metal sculpture. Now, all he needs to do is make a serious gas forge

Alan, Because you posted photos of this forge, I think some evaluation of it, for all the other people who are trying to decide between it and a host of other commercial forges, is appropriate. First of all, its shape is excellent; use of stainless steel is excellent; and their choice of sheet metal thickness is excellent (neither too thin or too thick). Every other thing in or on a forge is changeable, but a second rate shell (forge body) would be bad news. And speaking of changeable, the first change you may decide to make (after all of Frosty's recommendations) is to its front end. By removing the pin from its hinge, and removing it from the forge. You may then replace it with a movable stack of firebricks, or change it, by cutting a small opening in it for your heating stock to pass through, and mounting two flat bars on its bottom side, so that it can be placed near to the forge opening, to allow super heated exhaust gases to escape, will reflecting radiant heat back into the forge interior. Your description of how 'well' it heats, coupled with the size of the burner openings in the forge shell, tells me that you will eventually want to change out its present burners for one of the burners you see discussed here on IFI; burners are last on the list, because I believe all those other changes to be more important. Also, good burners come and go in the market place. Finally, making all of the recommended changes in your forge, is going to change you quit a bit, making burner choices much easier to get right. Luck to you and all the others who buy this forge.

Sounds like you had a a low boredom threshold problem too. Come now, admit it; you never thought you'd have to deal with living this long ether, did you? I always assumed 45 would be my limit...who knew, right? It's a kick If only we'd known, and all that jazz.

Fifty years back, I would have worried over that. These days, it's just an opportunity to learn something new. Old dogs don't care who is winning on any given day, cause the races go on and on down at the track, and the 'bunny' is fake.

The level of error needed for which the big "D" is handed out simply depends on the job we choose. I have always suffered from a low boredom threshold. Fortunately there are always jobs that the sane amongst us flee from. I was never out of work These days the garden is about all I get to play in. Kathy has had over half a century to learn all my tricks, and head me off at the pass

My last Darwin awards were over four decades back. These days my old body serves up Murphy awards It's all good; just rolling along...

I'm all for that. Let the new ideas rock and roll!

The difference between single and two burner forges, Diamondback or any other make, is size versus price. Any two burner forge can be run as a single burner forge, by temporarily walling off its rear section and shutting the gas off on that burner. Bottom line is, by spending more money up front, you get a forge with increased ability; most people like that. As to portability and efficiency, there isn't much difference. I recommend Diamondback forges as being the most bang for the back, since Mr. Volcano stopped selling forges. Fortunately Diamondback retooled their design and lowered their prices

Ugh!!! I hear you, and obviously do not care a fig about what such dummies 'think.' They were all wrong clear back in kindergarten an they are all wrong still. I admitted to being a blockhead too. But people who never learn a darn thing are a mystery to behold. On the other hand, it is a comfort to know that I'm not trailing the pack

Yellow flames are far less of a concern than a combination of purple, yellow, and worst of all blue flames coming from your exhaust, because yellow flames may only be caused by binders outgassing from the forge lining; if they are burner flames, you just need to back off the fuel pressure to give those flames room to complete combustion. Blue exhaust flames are always, burning carbon monoxide, which is always the byproduct of incomplete secondary flame combustion in the forge chamber. Turning the fuel pressure down will have little effect on them. Getting back to multiple colored exhaust flames; these are what we call the tertiary flame envelope. The best possible air-fuel flame is a single blue flame envelope; this also known as the flame front. Why flame front? well that goes back to velocity testing for different fuels. However it is a another legitimate term for the flame envelope, because gas flames burn from their exteriors inward. So, although the two terms are very different, they are describing two aspects of the same phenomenon. Imperfect gas flames have a primary, and a secondary flame envelope; these are typical of reducing flames. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as the secondary flame envelope combusts all of the fuel, which escaped the primary flame envelope. The burner on a gas stove has this same kind of flame. So do most lab burners, and even oxy-fuel torches. So-if all the fuel gets burned within a forge, so far so good. Here's the rub. Secondary flame get longer as they become more reducing. Blacksmiths know that a little secondary flame is good, but more sure ain't better!!! Now we come to the dread tertiary flames. What are these multiple colored monstrosities all about? They are the product of out of control flame speed. Your burner's gas orifice is designed to enhance speed of the gas jet; this induces air into the burner. However, too much a a good thing, becomes a very bad thing. An undersized gas orifice, or over pressurizing the fuel flow into the gas orifice will cause some of the gas molecules to outrace the induced air molecules needed for combustion. So, we end up with several different stages of combustion going on in the forge. Just as a highly reducing flame becomes way to long to be completely burned within the forge. Tertiary flame takes this problem into overdrive. Whatever shall we do?!? Begin by simply backing off the gas pressure. Once you have control of the situation, experiment with your burner to learn its limitations, and peculiarities. To successfully turn the gas pressure up higher, you may need a larger gas orifice. I don't mean using a larger MIG tip, I am talking about a couple thousandths of an inch. And I am repeating that you need to become much more familiar with your burner, out in the open air, before you change anything on it. I will need photos of its flames, out in the open air, to zero in on just what is going on with it. The people who have the worst problems with their burners, and therefore their forges, usually end up with the best burners, once they learn to control them. How can that be? Burners are kinda like race horses; the spirited ones are cantankerous; they still beat a worn out old plug all hollow

That would be nice. After all, Diamond back finally updated parts of their design. However, all these businesses seem to have a complete blind spot about their sadly out of date burners...

Thank you; I am looking forward to that, because it will show how much a slightly smaller gas orifice can improve performance. I am always interested in every little improvement. "A smart man figures it out, a genius listens to advice from others that are smarter than him." Good one, Kintan. I will be sure to steal that saying I would rather congratulate people who change my design successfully. Two different guys changed the design to improve their ease in building commercial versions of the burner, with great success; all it takes is understanding the why behind its construction details. Then, you can mess and change to your heart's content. After all, that's what the designer did

Kintan, You wrote "I went with three port holes instead of 4 and used schedule brass pipe for the accelerator tube. The tips I had were actually 1/4-20 thread at .030. Just got it fired up. Much better flame than the first ones I made and outside the forge ran really well at 5 psi." Three air intakes instead of four proves that you are paying attention to our advice, because that change was post publication. Using schedule #80 pipe was another guy's excellent idea about two years after the book came out. I went with schedule #40 pipe to make it easy for people to buy, giving up too much in return for too little You will probably find that 5 PSI is the bottom of a 3/4" Mikey burner's turn-down range; all of mine started huffing at 4 PSI. 1/2-20 thread is a little unusual, but not a problem. However a 0.030" diameter through hole on a 023 MIG is excellent! I started out with Tweco tips back in 1999; back then they were the best tips available, and their through holes were 0.031". Then imported tips flooded the market, and pretty soon 0.035" was standard. So, your 0.030" tips are a very good find It would be good to find out how far you can turn down you improved burner. I would love to know.

Oh, how fortunate that I never wrote for the people who have you so aggravated; never even imagined getting through to them. They have no more existence than strangers in a crowded street, as I walk by. From the beginning I wrote for the less than one percent, who listen and learn...at times. When I answer individual questions, the same attitude applies. So long as the person makes the slightest attempt to understand, I do not mind repeating, repeating, repeating. Sooner or later, they get it, or they give up and just go away. Since my aspirations were low to begin with, its all fine. Knowing that I too am a blockhead, has a few advantages