iron woodrow

hey phil, what you mentioned about part numbers is exactly what hans spoke to me about, his anvil block casting, has a part number and a reference number of some sort.

the stretching and flexing of ones think muscle, and admitting ones faults and failures is the best step forward ;) and there is also a reason why religion v/s science is a taboo subject on this site. my response was to be as inclusive as possible, from a historical research veiwpoint, not to draw a line in the sand. said Glenn- The basic guidelines for the site have always been no fussing, no cussing, no threats, no personal attacks, and please stay away from discussing religion and politics, or discussion of illegal activities or items.

congratulations phil, you win the steak knives! of course it is a press, and i love your steam secrets story, it is always much more easy to believe a story if it has a bad scottish accent in it :p

i think by saying "biblical times", you are encompassing a vast range of time periods (anywhere between "the creation" arguably 4.5 billion years ago , until the 2nd century AD) narrowing it down to a particular place at a particular time period would do wonders for research on the matter. being a bit scientific in the archeologicial side of things......

hans, i would buy the little grey 2cwt, but someone wont tell me where it is! :p and they want me to split it in two ;) mr danger, i found that hammer on google, it appears to be a Massey 7cwt, which they have put a plaque on to state it is a STEAM HAMMER?!?! no idea of the date. here is an interesting hammer i just found..... steam hydraulic???

hey basher, i think you are referring to the fact that if you depress the treadle (or driver lever) (with the floating quadrant set in the "hold up" notch,) you can lower the hammer through the full motion of "hold down" "neutral" and into the "full working" or reciprocating range. there is a pivoting stop to prevent accidental full depression, and it has a telescopic function which actually allows the motion to be locked entirely, to enable the smith (or assistant) to work between the dies with no fear of accidental smiting. when going on a tour of the railway workshops in Ipswich, ( QLD, Austraila) i saw that their Massey 3cwt "inslides" hammer was always set to neutral, (in which the dies or pallets are sitting together and the air is open to the atmosphere) and when they wanted to work a pick or such, they would depress the treadle and wiat for the dies to open, as the valve went into in full working mode! it looked like a clumsy way of forging! if the apprentice doing the demo (which it usually was) didnt get the job out from between the dies, he (or she) would have to depress the pedal again to release the job! this is the reason i dont like mechanical hammers nearly as much as a pneumatic, as the dies have a tendancy to clamp your job, or give it a final hit, if you are not wary.

john (nonjic) please dont feel that i am trying to lure you into posting protected information! you have provided the exact information, as it was needed in every thread i have read that has your contribution, and you are a living international treasure (to hammer enthusiasts). please feel free to chime in on non protected steam hammer and other pneumatic air hammer information ;) was it you or phil that once mentioned a type of "retrofit" rear cylinder for steam hammers?? would you consider the heat from the compression piston too great for a rear cylinder to be fabricated from heavy wall steam pipe of the right diameter? thankyou for posting this image as it will keep my mind really busy over the next few hammer free months.... (this thread comes as a direct result of hammer withdrawls....) after which i can drool over HJPs massey #3 john larson, my steam hammer has a spool valve, all be it a very simple one, but i am sure i have seen some that have rotary valving setups in steam hammers. maybe a sort of evolutionary process weeded the fellas out..... like brass wind instruments, the spool or slide valve just seems to be "the way" :) mind you, there are some slide trombones with a rudimentary rotary valve key to get higher notes.....

by suck, do you mean air intake, or internal vacuum? and is there a gland on the compressor piston to stop air loss on the down stroke? is this a clearspace only thing? because the 1cwt in slides we worked on definately didnt.....

they are indeed the epitome of self contained hammers...

i refer anyone following this thread to another thread, as it is quite informative '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> i had not found it before, and answers some of my questions .

thanks for that info phil! i will save that for when i need to do the packing on the #5 up here. (when i convince the mill that they dont need it due to it not working) ;)

thats a bold question hans!

any updates????

well as far as i know! maybe i have just been confusing myself! but the feed piston we pulled out of the massey 1cwt when i did my apprenticeship, just looked like an over sized engine piston, two compression rings , gudgeon pin and skirt, and a long conn rod to the crank, so it would be impossible to get air on the down stroke!?!

Through my research (read obsession) on steam hammers, massey hammers and all things big and smitey, i have come across so many different problems, and the ingenious methods used to overcome such problems. I have learned that there are many diehard members on this site who, at the drop of the hat (or forging fez) will go on a random rampage about their chosen hammers. the mechanical hammers seem to be over represented (probably due to the relative abundance of such items) but i have become addicted to the air/steam hammer. for we few, oh we happy few, who have delved too deep in these dark arts, these machines have become the stuff of our subconscious. my head is spinning with the many possibilities and incarnations of the valving of these beasts, and pneumodynamics is so mind boggling to me that i am constantly found staring into oblivion.... john n (nonjic), phil, jnewman, ken zitur, john larson, danger dillon, moony, basher, basically everyone who has chimed into the Steam Hammers thread, and not to mention the late Mr Sarver, have given so many hours of thought and knowledge to this subject, and i thank you all. there are so many questions that fly through my head that i think that even if anyone feels inclined, could maybe be answered some day, and i would like to open this thread, basically to ask the cosmos and see what happens.... in pilkington/ alldays hammers, which i have been told operate on a vacuum vs pressure (suck vs blow) above the tup, i am assuming that every stroke of the feed piston is mirrored in the tup, with varying degrees of pressure allowed in for the regulation of the blow. if this is the case, does the single blow /hold down on a pilkington/ alldays vary in its pressure, like a heartbeat (to make it romantic :P ) or is there a way of metering the air to a constant pressure? alternately, on a self contained massey, which i have been led to believe is a pressure above/ below the tup piston, and only gives air on the upstroke of the feed piston, does the feed piston make two pressure strokes for every one return stroke of the tup? or is the volume of the feed piston more than the volume needed for one stroke of the tup? (either up or down) and therefore left with extra compressed air to start the upstroke?? is the exhaust air ever used back into the system, like it is in a compound steam engine? or is the air exhausted at such low pressures that it cannot be re-used? in a steam vs self contained question, could a steam hammer be run with a varying supply (like a selfcontained hammer), and likewise could a self contained hammer be run on a constant supply? what raises the last question is seeing what i would call a transitional massey (basically looks like a steam hammer with a rotary valve, and a feed piston) which seems like an early version of the massey in slides. '> would it react differently to a steam hammer, due to the fluctuation in supply? (would it have a fluctuation???) could a steam hammer with a shuttle valve be modified to run off a retrofit feed piston? or is the valving such that it can only run on a constant supply? just the tip of the iceberg i am afraid....... woody.

perfect description Mr Newman! i particularly like the idea of the plate underneath, and the square shank is the part that had eluded me! i was wondering how you stopeed the bolt turning, and there you go! simplicity is always key ;) and i had noticed the threaded holes in the top of the bolts, on the MASSEY i worked on, but never drew two and two together! i had always known they were like a larger version of the pit (or manhole cover) lifters we used to make. here is a drawing from a 1911-? engineering manual i found with timber and concrete foundations, along the lines of what i was thinking for my steam hammer..... '' target='_blank'>> but the T bolts are not in these drawings, i would much rather the T bolts! i will fit them in.

even a 5 is worth the visit mate, and i need to see how a nest of hammers forms in its natural habitat..... ;)

hey guys could you give a brief explanation of how the T shaped anchor bolts work? i know the massey #5 at forge bro's has T shaped bolts under it, but never got to see how they actually fit into the equation?!?!

the earth moved for me too, when i saw that video..... i cant wait to ONE DAY come to your shop phil, but my finance/war/immigration minister might take it up with the U.N. if i raise the issue....

HOW DARE YOU DEGRADE THIS THREAD WITH HUMOUR!!! i am reporting this to the moderators!!!!

I never have had that problem on the MASSEYs I have used, the Clearspace #5s I've used have heavy weighted dipstick heads, maybe to stop such a problem happening.... and the #1 guided hammers have the oilers on the near side. one of the #5s really huffs and puffs in hold up mode, and stirs up dust underneath, but no launching of dipsticks!

yeah hans, but basher is a tv celeb!

thanks Vaughn, she is a stately old girl for sure, she rings "schnell!!, schnell!!" at me when I don't hit fast enough! but the silence is the most deafening part :( when she is locked up with only 4 vices and 2 swage blocks for company. poor old girl.

I hope you find the human you are looking for. if I was in London I would volunteer!

I've had this little honey for a while, and while I was carrying it out of the van during the last move I thought to myself "I have never weighed this beast" so, I decided to get out the bathroom scales, thinking to myself- "yeah maybe 80kg (170 lb), it cant be heavier than me, since I've been lugging it around so long" well, the limit of the scales was 130kg, so I nearly broke them.... it weighs in at 120kg!!! (265lb!) I was stoked! I paid (I think) around 2$ a lb about ten years ago, and it is a beauty to use, and that is all that has mattered to me until now. not a sign of a sharp edge anywhere, but the world is full of sharp edged scrap, so what do I care! '' target='_blank'>> I don't know how to upload photos directly to the site, so bear with me....