poleframer

It tested with great satisfaction, nice control with the treadle to the hydraulic flow control valve, thats a 9.7 gpm gearoter motor turning the swashplate for the adjustable driveshaft in the rear. The plate has different hole settings for shorter or longer stroke, easy to set the blow height with the cyl under the pivot. And the beginnings of my sister hammer.

The anvil is a 6x6 inch squart full pen weld on two 4x4 sq chunks welded on a 3x12x10 plate, the base is a 5 foot by 13 inch one inch thick base, 3x6 posts, 8 x 6 top. 65 lb hammerhead without the die, dump truck leaf spring pack, it weighs 65 lbs, the center pivot is on a small hyd ram that adjyste the hammer hight quickly. The 8 x 8 x 12 half inch thick piece of box tube welded in is for the 5" by 11 inch stroke press cylinder over the adjustable table. Power hammer with a 57 ton press with a 9 inch by 14 inch opening, 1 inch thick plates, and a 25 ton top down press with an adjustable table.

My friend Tim, Siskiyouforge, was over at white city metals and picked up thers 20 inch stroke, 7 inch bore cylinders, the base and caps are 2.5 inches thick, but bit too tall for what I wanted to do. SO I cut them down to 14 inch stroke, and carefully cut off the botom tangs, and rethreaded the 1 inch tie rods. Cutting the 3.5 inch ram was a chore. Replaced all seals, I feel good with them. The lathe and the versamil are run with hydraulic motors.

Was doing some oak branches then, turned acorns on my lathe. First works from the forge with the power hammer.

Ok I havnt been keeping up with enough, I"ll grab a round toit and do a thread on the latest hammer build. You all might remember the 1st hydraulic rusty/press that I messed around with. And got Rocky.

In combustion, oxygen oxidizes a fuel. But oxygen itself isn't a fuel. The process of burning is simple oxidation (like rust) but at a much faster rate. Almost every material gives off heat when it oxidizes, and this supports further combustion. Some materials will also vaporize when heated, increasing the ability of oxygen to react with them. So it's a little confusing, in that fire itself is the oxidation of a material. If flame (combustion) is rapid oxidation, how is it that oxygen is "non-flammable"? If it sounds like I'm a bit confused, I am. Seems a bit contradictory to me, tho I've heard the explanation a few times. Kinda like saying water is not wet, it only makes things that it gets on wet.

I think you're wrong as well. Oxygen does burn, it's one of the three elements rrequired for a fire, fuel, oxygen, ignition. Remove any one of those and you dont have a fire. Most people who die in fires dont burn ot death, they die of lack of oxygen first.

To add to the question, at what size would you want a smaller secondary hammer? Of course there's the finess of the larger hammer controls, but wouldnt you use a smaller hammer than a 4B for under one inch stock? (1/2" w/e) Like most other power tools, people who have big ones usually have a few smaller ones laying about.

What if you fill your tube with the shavings, and instead of a cap, use a plug on top that will drive down into the shavings, maybe it will get more solid as it gets hammered in. Maybe even start the tamping process lower with some kind of extention, working your way up, and use the hammer to really pack that stuff down tight.

Hmm, what if...a person used that design with these changes. Where the head is on the top photo was a roller guide (rusty type arrangement) attached to the post with side plates so the tie-rod could pass through to mount on a leaf spring above. The leaf spring arrangement would be something along the lines of sam's compact rusty. If it had a shackle on the back like gearhartironwerks kinyon, one wouldnt need the rollers in the front like the rusty needs. Say about a 28-30 inch leaf spring with eyes both ends. It would be the same layout otherwise. Maybe with some adjustability built in for hammer travel and such. Could be able to reposition the shackle on the post. Now, since I like making multifunction tools, I want a small power hammer too. So, it would have a motor to spin a flywheel, and figure in the jackshafts and pulleys in there between the anvil and the post. When I want to change over from treadle mode, I'd disconnect the spring and the tie rod at the bottom, the tie rod would bolt to the powered crank, and the treadle would drop down into a lower position and operate the idler pulley. See what happens when you ask for thoughts? I'll stop now before I get myself in trouble, and have to build another contraption.

sweet!

I think I mentioned that I have a kill switch for the electric clutch that links my pump to the diesel that runs my system. It's right at the valve bank, so if anything pops I can stop the pump right now. I also notice that some systems I look at dont have a pressure guage in view. I'm working up another hammer press combination, and will do a thread on it when I get it going. I've thought it would be neat if the people doing presses could do a thread like the power hammer test, to show what work can be done to a sample piece, listing the force used, cylinder size/system pressure, amount of pressure used to do the work, etc.

So, as I understand it, you want to make your own two stage system. Why couldn't you run two pumps, a large one and a smaller one off one motor, put a pressure relief on the output of the larger pump that diverts it's flow back to reservoir at say 1200 psi (or whatever you set the relief at), followed by a check valve before the lines T together, that would keep the higher pressure lower flow from the smaller pump from dumping as well. If you have a choice of pumps, and a motor that works well for you, you could arrange the best flows at the pressures you want.

Isn't a power hammer just like having a striker, at the tap of your foot?

Look for a scaffolding leveling screw, they arent too expensive, and come with a big winged nut. They are about and inch and a half thick, acme threads. http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Scaffold-Leveling-Jack-Base-Plate-Screw-Jack-/290435393330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f4c6732

I'm working on my 2nd hydraulic powered hammer now. Doing a "rusty" style, but use a hydraulic motor to a drag link to the leaf springs. I get great control using a flow control valve with linkage to the foot pedal. I'll put up a vid when done. It also has a 60 ton forging press, and a 25 ton punching press in the frame. This one uses springs from a dump truck, 5 foot long, 3/4" thick each at the center, 65 lb hammer. You can check out some vids of my first one in my JYH and press thread. I think a 2 stage pump would work, I never see over 500 psi when I'm running the hammer at about 10 to 12 gpm. Be happy to answer any questions you might have. Russell

Yep, I'd say jackshaft, make a larger mounting plate, put the step pulley that's on the motor on a jackshaft in the same position that it's in now, and mount the motor to the side and up a bit, with a small pulley on it to the largest step of the back pulley.

Well, he picked up 2 nice cylinders at white city metals, 7" bore, 20" stroke, 3000 psi rated. Since they're tie rod style, we'll be able to cut them down to more like 12" stroke, so the height will be closer to Randys setup. At 3000 psi, that's 57.6 tons each, so looks like two forging presses are in the works. Have enough steel to do a 600lb anvil. I think having the mass of the forging press included will really help reduce overall vibration of the hammer. The hammer shaft is 2"X4"x24" stock, after adding the tup and die for a 60 lb hammer, we'll be doing a UHMW guide, he picked up a dump truck main spring thats about 3/4" thick in the middle, should give a good whap driven with a hydraulic motor. Looking into a 3 phase power unit now. Here's the cylinders, 100 bucks each, good score

Time to start on another powerhammer for a friend, he really likes the control of my hammer. We are going to make some changes of course, considering this one as a prototype. I'd like to pick your collective brains for ideas. We plan to make more of a forging press in the design, using a heavy press frame for the backbone of the hammer adds both strength, and weight to the whole machine. We're going 6" wide, I-beams top and bottom, the forging press will be based on Randys design. We've been thinking a lot about changing the location of the driving linkage to something more along the lines of Sam's compact rusty, and I'm not quite seeing if the gains we want are there. If you watch the second clip I have posted above, the whip action of the springs are quite apparent, I'm wondering how that will change by using Sam's configuration. In his sketch he has the drive linkange about a third of the spring length ahead of the pivot. What we're trying to gain is a little more control, I can sort of one hit on mine, but not with the force that I'd like. The control I get with the flow valve/hydraulic motor is pretty good, and that motor has lots of torque, but there's just a bit too much slop in the springs to deliver a good single blow, it would be nice to be able to one hit strongly with each push of the control pedal. The question is how much we're giving up of the additional force acquired in the whip action of using a spring. I was also looking closely at John's (gearhartironwerks) new kinyon hammer, especially the way the air cylinder is mounted on the short spring. I'm thinking much the same, with a slightly longer spring, and again using a rotary type hydraulic motor and flow control valve setup. In this plan in the works, instead of the drive rod being all the way to the back, it would be on the post between the press and hammer, with the spring pivot somewhere on the top of the press, maybe about where the u-joint pivot is on my hammer. It seems that if the spring is too short, not only is there the loss of the spring whip, but also the forgivness to the drive linkage and motor that the spring gives. I think I can see how using an air cylinder gives the cusioning needed in John's application. The anvil will be around 400 lbs, so we'll be making about a 40 lb hammer for it. We still need to see if his hydraulic power pack is up to the job of spinning a hydraulic motor, otherwise we'll be figuring out either a slackbelt drive like in a rusty hammer, or perhaps a air cylinder like in John's unit if his air compressor is up to it. Oh, some stats on my system. I ran the numbers on it, and with the diesel running at half throttle (rarely need more) I'm pushing about 8 gpm. When I'm running the hammer, the pressure gauge just hits about 500 psi (it wavers below that as the hammer hits), so to run a hammer, you really don't need the kind of pressure that a press would take. I think a two stage pump would work fine in this application, in that it would probably stay at the higher flow rate in operation. Thoughts? Any comments are welcome, we will be posting pics of the build as we progress. Oh, does anyone have a couple 6" short cylinders or a 8" that would be suitable for a forging press? His shop is just out of Grants Pass Oregon.

Hi Armand, my hammer is hydraulic run, I have a hydraulic piston motor (wheel motor) low speed, high torque. Its mounted on the back post of the press, with a drag link to the connecting rod to the back shackle of the spring. The foot pedal operates a flow control valve. I should post another vid, I'm really liking the control this setup gives. Made some changes to the dies since the last I posted, they bolt to tabs instead of through the hammer shaft , and made a tong die. BTW, yea, macbruce, I'll probably scrap the frame, and re-do it all. I put the frame together in a day or two out of my scrap pile, just for the press, the hammer happened 2 years later. Everything is well welded, not worried about it flying apart on me, but the 4" ram does bend the channel that I scabbed into box with more plate. I only use the press for straightening stuff, or pressing parts, I wouldnt attempt forging with it. Right now its a prototype, me and a friend are building him a similar unit, with substantial structural steel.

I'm thinking tracks, for some serious off-road forging. Now your getting my projects ALL mixed up!

Well, here's what I did. More limited that macbruces, in that circles would be harder. I'm getting packed for space in the metal working side of the shop, having several operations in one footprint has an appeal. Plus, I had all the parts at my feet. I do get a little more push out of the upper cylinder, both move fairly fast off one valve.

Over at machine builders net some guys are into building mini articulated machines, or adding a front end loaders to garden tractors. I think a number of guys here could really benefit with scrapping together a little yard buggy. Those garden tractors (not the murry riding mowers) are built well, and many like the JD 140 or 300 series have hydrostatic drives, and hydraulic ports to tap into. They pop up on CL pretty often.

Thats the truth! I dont even have a durn MIG. Just my '89 Miller AEAD legend gen/welder, and a couple boxes of 7018 that I feel secure with.

Thanks for picking this thread up again. I'm already plumbing in another cylinder for the press/hammer, and soon bender contraption. Part of my situation is that I have a lot of flow, but not pressure. My pump displaces 1.69 cu (looked up the cessna number), with a 6" pulley, to a 3" pulley on my diesel. I usually run the diesel at around 12-1500 rpms for the lathe, or light hammering, if I run it at 2500 rpm the hammer really gets aggressive, and only run it wide open running 8-10 inch oak through the bandsaw. For motors, I rarely see the pressure over 500 lbs. I have a gauge at the valves, and if I bring the pressure up to around 2000lbs, that's about stall for the engine, but it works great for the hydraulic motors on my shop equipment. I'm thinking of getting the foot pedal bar out of the way (lower it, the hammer wants to be about 4" higher anyway) and attach a cross bar perpendicular and on top of the lower I-beam with a longer cyl against one of the posts, kinda like Doc's bender in macbruce's bender thread. I tried the cyl I picked up the other day, it extends 5-1/2" to push 3-1/2" on the upper cyl. Both are about 4" cyls, the longer one has about a 2" rod, the shorter one is about 1-1/2". I suppose I'll put a gauge on the line between them, and set my pressure relief at the spool accordingly. So, I'm looking for more like a short 6" cyl for the press. As it is, I'm getting good speed out of both cylinders. Thanks for the input, I'm still working on getting the regen concept straight in my head, groking one concept often leads to other solutions to problems I didnt even know I had! Like not having a bender, could have used one in there many times. Oh, and yea, Fe-Wood, one spool now runs two cyls, the lower one that will be the bender moves faster than the one for the press. NOW, is when, if I was really getting into it, I'd attach a lever from the bottom of the press ram through one of the posts, with a pin and a bushing, and have a small shear too. A blacksmiths ironworker, courtesy of ford mortor corp. Two excuses for fitting all this into one frame is to get as much action in one footprint in my ever crowding shop, and using all this cr*p I'm accumulating. Seems good to have these actions a step or two from the forge.