wolfshieldrx Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 More than once I have come across the following statement in my reading: "Nails used to be so valuable that building would be burned down just to recover the nails." None of these statements reference any period documentation. Considering the effort required in felling trees and then converting said trees to lumber suitable for nails, this just does not ring true to me. Any truth to this, or just one of those myths that are perpetuated by the ignorant (like me)? bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Considering the ammount of effort to make iron from those trees (charcoal was the smelting fuel until coke was introduced by Abraham Darby in the 1700's) And what nails were used for was attaching lath which was pretty easily made from wood. I couldn't say. But wood was cheap on the hoof in the Americas in early colonial times. Houses were generally pegged together for the big stuff not nailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I too had heard that one over time. However it is probably partly false. There were plenty of colonial nailmakers, Thomas Jefferson had a nail factory at the time. Probably more likely if the house did burn down, which was common in that era of woodstoves, fireplaces, and kerosene lighting, they did gather up the nails for re-use. In my opinion they did not purposely burn down a house for nails, but would gather them up if they got the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Mulholland - Tetnum Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 when a family was traveling further west there was no one to buy nails from si they would burn their buldings for nails i have personaly seen sites compleatly free of nails whare a house wasw burned just to retrive them iron was of valueable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaming S Forge Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I read one time where before the Revolutionary War, England wanted to control the iron making so the colonists would have to buy the nails and other stuff from them. It is said that in the winter, the colonists families would sit at the fireplace and forge their own nails from whatever iron they could find. Another thing I read was that a person's wealth at that time was determined by how many nails they had hammered into the outside of their door. The nails were used as a deterrent for the Indians trying to chop their way into the house through the door. Thus the saying came about, "dead as a door nail". When I make nails at demos, I usually tell the onlookers a little bit of the nail history I have read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The burning of houses for nails are true for the families that were on a westward movement. It is my understanding that Virginia put a stop to this by offering those moving an amount of money for not burning the house. It has been sometime since I have the actual information and references to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I always assumed it was in reference to a house that was going to be torn down anyway. That they were saying something a long the lines of "Instead of hauling the debri off to some land fill type place, they would instead burn it and recover the nails." No clue though, I wasn't alive then :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 as far as the term "deader than a door nail" it refers to the fact that nails holding hinges and latches in a door were driven completely thru then bent over and driven back so they almost worked like a rivet... you couldnt pull them out without axcess to the inside of the door to work them loose so they kept someone from beieng able to open the door with a crowbar ...at least that was the idea..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I too had heard that one over time. However it is probably partly false. There were plenty of colonial nailmakers, Thomas Jefferson had a nail factory at the time. Probably more likely if the house did burn down, which was common in that era of woodstoves, fireplaces, and kerosene lighting, they did gather up the nails for re-use. In my opinion they did not purposely burn down a house for nails, but would gather them up if they got the chance. Correct, by the time Thomas Jefferson was making nails the need to burn buildings for the nails had deminished considerably, if not totally. But rewind 75 to 100 years then yes, that need was there. Most of the villages were small. Once they had hunted all the game and farmed the land to where it would not produce they would burn the buildings to save the nails and other iron work and move to fresh land and more game. This would give the smith of the village a 'head start' if you will. Trees were in abundance so it was not that big a deal for the lumber, iron on the other hand...well that has been adressed in the above posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I seem to recall that Albert Sonn ("Early American Wrought Iron") referenced an early Virginia statute forbidding nail salvage through arson. I'm sure Eric Sloane alluded to the tradition as well but probably without citation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Here was a reference I found in a google book.Home Life in Colonial Days - Google Book Search This was interesting too, not the reference I was looking for though: 4 JUL., 1682. Order Book, 1671 to 1691, Surry County, VA, in custody of Surry Court House, Surry, VA. Page 379 4 July, 1682 Daniell Regan having cut down and carried away one walnut tree and three timber trees from the Glebe Land of Southwarke Parish as by evidence and his own confession appearth. It is ordered that he the said Regan pay to the Churchwardens of the said Parish 1000 pounds of tobacco and caske with costs. The Churchwardens of Southwarke Parish having made complaints to Lt. Col.. William Brown that one of the houses upon the Glebe Land of the said Parish was burnt and the nails taken away and one Daniell Regan vehemently suspected for the burning of the said house and taking away the nails he upon the said complaint issued his warrant to the Constable to search for the said nails and to bring the person with whom they should be found before him or some other Justice who by virtue of the said warrant searched the said Regan's house and finding the nails caused the said Regan to go before the said Lt.. Col.. William Browne who bound the said Regan to answer the same at this Court. And the Churchwardens of the said Parish now petitioning against the said Regan for reparation of the damage the Parish hath sustained in the burning of the house and taking away of the nails. And it appearth to this Court by the testimony of John Watkins, Constable, that upon his going into the said Regan's house to search for the nails he very earnestly denied he knew anything of them but so soon as they were found confess they were the nails of the said house. It also appearing by very circumstantial evidence that the said Regan did burn the said house but not being sufficient proved. It is ordered that the said Regan pay to the Churchwardens of the aforesaid Parish 1000 pounds of tobacco and caske with costs and that the said Regan remain in the Sheriff's custody until he enter into bond with good security for his further good appearing. Daniell Regan appeals from this Order to ye next General Court which is granted giving security according to law. Daniell Regan in Court withdraweth his appeal. Descendants of Daniell Regan , Sr. Here it is:http://www.appaltree.net/aba/nails.htm Edited February 7, 2009 by piglet_74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ALL this started way earlyier then and the creation of the USA. I have with me nails fro the MEMMELUK era 650-700 years ago that were found by marine archologist on a sunken ship that had on boared the tax collected at the SIRIEN regon of the kingdom on the way to the capital city CAIRO. mOST OF THE NAIL (very big veriety) are bent in the end side the way they were bent when hammerd in . this is a sign that the houses were burend dowen and the nail collected ,in that era if or in war or if one did not pay the tax the house was burent dowen and the naile collected because of their high velue. they found 6 bulks of 380 kg 836 lbs full with lime stone and I put one of my german student to open it slowely and to recover all the iron -bronze pieces. It contained on top of nailes chisles,locks,decorated nails with bronze top.parts of chain, iron jewlery wepon and some pieces of raw matirial wrought iron ready for forging. Tmorrow i'' post some very interesting photo's HOFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Looking forward to seeing the picture's Mr Hofi.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Boy! I opened a keg of nails. You guys are a deep well of information. Thanks a bunch...bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 The photo's i attuch here are of parts that were forged 700 years ago on the memmeluke era (we know the date according the money that was found together as a part of the tax delivery) the photo's will be sent in two sections because i can not upload all at once part 1 001 bent nail covered partiely with lime 002-003 nailes decorated with cast bronze heads 004 decorated iron forged nail (the point is bent) 005-006-006a folded door key (see the folding hing) 007 chain 008 handle rings 009 swivel ring with hook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Cool key, seems they needed that swivel handle to get more leverage? or more torque to turn the lock.. Those nail have big heads eh, And because there bent you think they recovered from a fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Part 2 of the memmeluke artifax 010 -011 hinges 012 hing decoration 013-014 prt of bronze kneckless and the decoration 015 ring handle with decorated rhoset 016-017 hinge ,one can see the fibers of the wrought iron 018 row iron bars smelted and forged ready to forge 019 tools ( chisel, points of deeging tools or wepon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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