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Beginner blacksmith here. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong section. I have some old railway scrap that I would like to work with. I tried to find info on what the Pandrol clips are made of and came back with 60Si2MnA. Not 100% on that though since I don't know how old these are. My main question is what would be a good way to heat them and straighten them out? Hammer it while heated in a vice to gets the bends relatively open then finish on an anvil? Has anyone ever worked with these? Just looking for tips. Thanks!

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Edited by uranium_jones
missed clip name
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Welcome aboard. 

If you would fill out the header and let us know where you are at in the great big world it would be helpful. many questions you have or will have are area specific. For example anvil price or like your rail clips what the material is. They may use a different material in Europe than we do here in the states for example. You do not have to be specific just general area, like mine "SW Ohio just outside of Dayton". This will also help with finding local smiths who are more than willing to have you over for a day or come to your forge and work with you. And we love sharing knowledge and tall tales. 

Your rail clips, i have actually never worked with them but i do know they are pretty tough material. They will make good tooling. As far as straightening them, yes... no... do how ever is easiest for you. For the round ones, i would heat them up. put them in a vice and use a piece of pipe to bend them straight, the square one, same thing with the "U" bend, the rest of it just heat it up and straighten on the anvil. 

Those RR spikes, if they have "HC" on the head those are "high carbon" i put that in quotes becuase they are not high carbon but higher carbon than a standard rail spike. IIRC they are about .5 or .6 carbon. If i am wrong some one should be along to correct me shortly. 

There are many threads here about working RR scrap. So yes many people here have worked with RR scrap. 

Anywho, again welcome aboard, have fun and stay safe while doing it. 

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I have 2 of those clibs straightend.

One is already transformed into a punch and a drift. (From 1 clip you can make 2 nice to hold tools)

They work good.

I know some that have made chisels out of them and they hold up very well according to them.

 

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Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

If you are making RR spike knives the blades can be sort of hardened in "super quench" (you can look up the recipie) to the point where a file will barely bite.  Not hard but harder than un-heat treated.  No tempering.

Your method for uncurling the tips will work.  Use a length of pipe to get more leverage.

When straightening any bend always hit it from the outside of the curve with 2 points on something solid like the anvil.  If it is a U shape with parallel legs use something wedge shaped to open up the legs so that you can turn it over and hit the outside of the curve.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you are unsure yes soak them for at least 24 hours. Regardless of if there is zinc or not the vinegar will clean them up. 

Something you may hear among blacksmiths "in rust we trust". Zinc is a corrosion preventative it is supposed to keep metal from rusting, so logically if it is rusted there is no zinc. Those being rusted USUALLY, and i stress usually, means there is no zinc. However i have about 100' of 3/8 round that i salvaged from a barn that is rusted and is galvanized. They are maybe 50 or 60 years old and great material to work with once the zinc is cleaned off.

Watch your material when you heat it  and as it cools. If you see any thing that is "not right" set it aside  immediately, somewhere a good ways away from you that is. That is how i discovered these rusty 3/8 round bars were galvanized. Looked like a yellow powder on the heated part as it cooled. 

 I am in no way, shape, or form saying that you should throw the metal into your fire and see if it turns yellow. If you have doubts, soak them in vinegar, wont hurt anything. 

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I've worked with Pandrol clips - it needs to be worked at a high heat - above 2000 degrees F.  Tough spring steel, you can make decent tools with it.  I've never seen any with a zinc coating as all of mine are nice and rusty.

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Pandarol clips, like rail, are a mid carbon steel, say around 60 points of carbon-ish, but way, way harder to move due to the alloying elements. Oil quench if hardening. Work hot, and plan for breaks if not naps. Spikes are mild steel, maybe .02 percent carbon and for "HC" around .03. They're better by far for decorative elements than anything else. They make good slingshots and nice heavy bottle openers with a good twist. One of my favorites if you can get them is the big heavy bolts for fishplates. Broken knuckles are also not terrible makeshift anvils/swages.

And as an ex-conductor, please stay off the bloody rails. It's not the two bucks worth of missing steel that concerns so much as nearly killing someone every two or three trips.

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Nothing much special about them - they're just a really thick bit of hardenable round stock of an easily used length. I've made rivet headers and monkey tools out of them. Railroad workers are as lazy as the next guy, so no need to go on the rails - they'd finish a job and throw them brand new into the same dumpsters where we put our trash when we got off the engine. No idea where they were using them - all of the main line is welded, so maybe it was from industry tracks. With the rounded heads, you can also forge down a shank and use them for dishing tools and what not. They threw away a lot of huge regular looking track bolts too. Think a regular hex bolt from the hardware store, but almost 2" across.

Mostly there's never a need to go near the rails to get railroad steel if you're enamored of it. Trackworkers often just pile it up on the sides and will give it to you, although to be fair, it's not really theirs to give. But it's got a very low scrap value and much preferable to having people walking the tracks. If I had a nickel for everyone we almost hit on the rails, I'd have a small but impressive pile of nickels. Say around three times a week for four years, maybe $30?

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Here's something that JHCC posted a few years ago that I had saved. It agrees with other info I have found. 

In 2005, AREMA (the American Railroad Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association) changed the standards for carbon content of railroad spikes, to accommodate greater stresses from heavier average loads. According to the old 1968 standard, a regular "soft steel" spike would have a maximum of 0.12% carbon, and a "high carbon" spike would have a maximum of 0.30% carbon. The new standard for ALL spikes is:

Carbon: 0.17% - 0.25%. 
Manganese: 0.90 - 1.35%
Silicon: 0.35% Max.
Phosphorus: 0.04% Max.
Sulfur: 0.05% Max.
Copper: 0.20%  - 0.50%
Vanadium: 0.02% Min.

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  • 1 month later...

If I haven't welcomed you to the forum already it's my bad. We're glad to have you, if you put your general location in the header you'll have a much better chance of meeting up with members in your area.

You might want to start checking your spelling. A RAKE is used to remove leaves, rocks, etc from your lawn or garden.  Malaises means Illnesses. Covid 19 is a malaise.

The words you wanted were "Rack" and "Molasses." The phosphoric acid in molasses that lets it convert rust back to iron/steel and causes the black, iron phosphate finish that inhibits further rusting. Your post is good information with two SMALL corrections. Just because some of us old timers have known these things for a long time doesn't mean one of the hundreds of new folk breaking into the craft know. We don't discourage new folk from repeating good information, we encourage it because there is nothing like teaching others to increase your own learning. Seriously, it's the real deal. B)

I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm honestly glad you're posting but the blacksmith's craft has a specific jargon. Jargon is a specialized trade language with words and terms it's related directly to that trade. This allows the crafts people to talk about things without having to explain and describe every 3rd. word. If people are always having to spend time figuring out what a post is talking about they get frustrated. Most folks just stop reading puzzle posts unless they're REALLY interesting.

I've probably rambled more than long enough and should sign off for now. Stick around Jack, please.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I love working with the rail anchors,  I've made several blades out of them that are fairly tough and am in the process of making a saber out of a big one.   Some of this steel is very hard to work under the hammer and working it hot is the only option.   Rail spikes are a great tool that I've practiced a lot of techniques on.   The softer iron allowed me to learn how to hot chisel, punch and drift, twist, and draw out pieces.   Making the steak flippers really taught me how to use the horn of my anvil and half hammer blows.  Have fun with them. 

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