uranium_jones Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) Beginner blacksmith here. Sorry if this is posted in the wrong section. I have some old railway scrap that I would like to work with. I tried to find info on what the Pandrol clips are made of and came back with 60Si2MnA. Not 100% on that though since I don't know how old these are. My main question is what would be a good way to heat them and straighten them out? Hammer it while heated in a vice to gets the bends relatively open then finish on an anvil? Has anyone ever worked with these? Just looking for tips. Thanks! Edited May 11 by uranium_jones missed clip name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Welcome aboard. If you would fill out the header and let us know where you are at in the great big world it would be helpful. many questions you have or will have are area specific. For example anvil price or like your rail clips what the material is. They may use a different material in Europe than we do here in the states for example. You do not have to be specific just general area, like mine "SW Ohio just outside of Dayton". This will also help with finding local smiths who are more than willing to have you over for a day or come to your forge and work with you. And we love sharing knowledge and tall tales. Your rail clips, i have actually never worked with them but i do know they are pretty tough material. They will make good tooling. As far as straightening them, yes... no... do how ever is easiest for you. For the round ones, i would heat them up. put them in a vice and use a piece of pipe to bend them straight, the square one, same thing with the "U" bend, the rest of it just heat it up and straighten on the anvil. Those RR spikes, if they have "HC" on the head those are "high carbon" i put that in quotes becuase they are not high carbon but higher carbon than a standard rail spike. IIRC they are about .5 or .6 carbon. If i am wrong some one should be along to correct me shortly. There are many threads here about working RR scrap. So yes many people here have worked with RR scrap. Anywho, again welcome aboard, have fun and stay safe while doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I have 2 of those clibs straightend. One is already transformed into a punch and a drift. (From 1 clip you can make 2 nice to hold tools) They work good. I know some that have made chisels out of them and they hold up very well according to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you. If you are making RR spike knives the blades can be sort of hardened in "super quench" (you can look up the recipie) to the point where a file will barely bite. Not hard but harder than un-heat treated. No tempering. Your method for uncurling the tips will work. Use a length of pipe to get more leverage. When straightening any bend always hit it from the outside of the curve with 2 points on something solid like the anvil. If it is a U shape with parallel legs use something wedge shaped to open up the legs so that you can turn it over and hit the outside of the curve. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uranium_jones Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 Thank you all for your suggestions. I updated my location in my profile to Southwestern Wisconsin. I will definitely be using the pipe suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldom (dick renker) Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Kinda late joining this conversation. Panadrol clips are spring steel, what number i don't know. But be aware that some are zinc coated. Those you would want to stay away from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uranium_jones Posted May 24 Author Share Posted May 24 If I were to wire brush some of the rust off of them and then put it in vinegar would that be a way to determine if they are zinc coated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 If you are unsure yes soak them for at least 24 hours. Regardless of if there is zinc or not the vinegar will clean them up. Something you may hear among blacksmiths "in rust we trust". Zinc is a corrosion preventative it is supposed to keep metal from rusting, so logically if it is rusted there is no zinc. Those being rusted USUALLY, and i stress usually, means there is no zinc. However i have about 100' of 3/8 round that i salvaged from a barn that is rusted and is galvanized. They are maybe 50 or 60 years old and great material to work with once the zinc is cleaned off. Watch your material when you heat it and as it cools. If you see any thing that is "not right" set it aside immediately, somewhere a good ways away from you that is. That is how i discovered these rusty 3/8 round bars were galvanized. Looked like a yellow powder on the heated part as it cooled. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that you should throw the metal into your fire and see if it turns yellow. If you have doubts, soak them in vinegar, wont hurt anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 I've worked with Pandrol clips - it needs to be worked at a high heat - above 2000 degrees F. Tough spring steel, you can make decent tools with it. I've never seen any with a zinc coating as all of mine are nice and rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Pandarol clips, like rail, are a mid carbon steel, say around 60 points of carbon-ish, but way, way harder to move due to the alloying elements. Oil quench if hardening. Work hot, and plan for breaks if not naps. Spikes are mild steel, maybe .02 percent carbon and for "HC" around .03. They're better by far for decorative elements than anything else. They make good slingshots and nice heavy bottle openers with a good twist. One of my favorites if you can get them is the big heavy bolts for fishplates. Broken knuckles are also not terrible makeshift anvils/swages. And as an ex-conductor, please stay off the bloody rails. It's not the two bucks worth of missing steel that concerns so much as nearly killing someone every two or three trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoreB Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Nobody special: what about those fishplate bolts makes them desirable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Nothing much special about them - they're just a really thick bit of hardenable round stock of an easily used length. I've made rivet headers and monkey tools out of them. Railroad workers are as lazy as the next guy, so no need to go on the rails - they'd finish a job and throw them brand new into the same dumpsters where we put our trash when we got off the engine. No idea where they were using them - all of the main line is welded, so maybe it was from industry tracks. With the rounded heads, you can also forge down a shank and use them for dishing tools and what not. They threw away a lot of huge regular looking track bolts too. Think a regular hex bolt from the hardware store, but almost 2" across. Mostly there's never a need to go near the rails to get railroad steel if you're enamored of it. Trackworkers often just pile it up on the sides and will give it to you, although to be fair, it's not really theirs to give. But it's got a very low scrap value and much preferable to having people walking the tracks. If I had a nickel for everyone we almost hit on the rails, I'd have a small but impressive pile of nickels. Say around three times a week for four years, maybe $30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Both the pandrol clips and the track anchor will make good chisels and punches. I also made a small raising hammer from just such an anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil K. Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Here's something that JHCC posted a few years ago that I had saved. It agrees with other info I have found. In 2005, AREMA (the American Railroad Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association) changed the standards for carbon content of railroad spikes, to accommodate greater stresses from heavier average loads. According to the old 1968 standard, a regular "soft steel" spike would have a maximum of 0.12% carbon, and a "high carbon" spike would have a maximum of 0.30% carbon. The new standard for ALL spikes is: Carbon: 0.17% - 0.25%. Manganese: 0.90 - 1.35% Silicon: 0.35% Max. Phosphorus: 0.04% Max. Sulfur: 0.05% Max. Copper: 0.20% - 0.50% Vanadium: 0.02% Min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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