Matt in NY Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Seems to me that banging on a sub-freezing anvil isn't a good idea. What's a newbie to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlander Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 use a heater stick for car engines, direct a halogen spot light on the anvil(make sure the spotlight is very close to the anvil for it to heat up) make sure you let the heat soak a good bit, dont want the center to still be frozen and crack under your hammer blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenG Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Will heating up a couple pieces of steel and laying them on the face for pre-heating be enough? At what temp would someone need to be concerned? Good question. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 There are a couple of other threads on preheating anvils. You may want to use the IForgeIron Forum search engine to find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I have a piece of 6"X6"X1" steel plate that I heat in my forge to a dark red. Then I lay it on the anvil for a few minutes, turn it over and let it set for a few more minutes. Heat it a second time and repeat. This takes about 30-45 minutes, but I have not had any problems,"Yet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawnee1 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I am located in North Idaho and it get cool here, as low as -20 a couple times every winter. So before I started using a magnetic truck block heater, put on anvil side 1/3 of the way down works great and leave it on all night. I used to use two pieces 24" X 5/8" X 2" from a wrought iron tire. Straighten to lay on the anvil flat, heat to a yellow put on anvil till heat goes out, heat again and back on anvil till the frost level is half way down the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Magnetic engine heaters work quite well, especially if you wrap the anvil with fiberglass insulation too. It hasn't been cold enough to do so here yet but I do heat a couple blocks of steel to red and lay them on the face till it feels warm at the waist even in the teens. I make sure to get around the hardy and pritchel holes warm. I do it as much to keep the anvil from sucking the heat out of my work as to prevent breakage of the anvil but either is a good enough reason. Lastly, sitting on a warm anvil to take a break is a lot more comfortable than a cold one. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 If you have power to your shop an old electric iron can warm the anvil up while you are getting everything else set up. When I worked with a swordmaker who had a 400# anvil we hung paint cans off the horn and heel and build a small wood fire in each to preheat the anvil. I was just using a lovely early roman-spanish colonial styled (got museum cites for both ends!) anvil I noticed that it heated up fast being a small anvil, I'll be using it during the winter for doing the finish heats on knives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'm glad I found this thread. I think I knew that pounding on a cold anvil wasn't good, but I never thought to take so much time or care to warm one up before use. I think a magnetic engine heater would be a good addition to my shop. Now, if I can just find one cheap...!:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Can anyone find a reference in the literature about how this was handled 200 years ago before shops had electricity, old flat irons and engine heaters? I wonder just how much a blacksmith of 1850 worried about this and whether it matters for anything other than an anvil that's base is cast iron. Is this an issue for a one piece cast steel anvil? I used a flat iron a couple of times but where I work outdoors the cool weather wins every time so I no longer preheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Blacksmiths 200 years ago may have found out by bad experience that cold iron can break at loads that would not be a problem in warmer temperatures. This fact was not "scientifically" realized until our Liberty Ships began to crack up in the North Atlantic during WWII. Material that would be considered tough when warm begins to transition from ductile to brittle as the temperature drops. Every alloy has a peculiar curve which defines the temperature it is considered 'brittle". Today, ferritic steels can be tested at -40F and still be ductile. The big question is "does wrought iron behave this way"? Since Sulfur, Phosporus and Tin have a negative effect on toughness, I am sure the old anvils with the steel plate are indeed at risk of brittle failures at low temperature. The old guys probably just put a heated iron on the anvil and warmed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I use a piece of large barstock or any fairly thick scrap for preheating. I usually do this to the anvil and post vise and use the time to cut stock, smoke a cig. or whatever. Really helps to keep the anvil or vise from "sucking" the heat out, especially the vise. I had never thought about damage though. I don't usually do anything real heavy, but I wonder if the vise would be more prone to this kind of damage?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 'This fact was not "scientifically" realized until our Liberty Ships began to crack up in the North Atlantic during WWII.' A few years ago I did some work for a (British) chap who was on the first Liberty Ship to return to the US. He mentioned that the cracking began around the square corners of the holds and that it was cured by radiusing the angles. By the way, the first ship back carried trilby hats and condoms...gratitude eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Hill Forge Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Ohhhhhhhhh so now I know where all the anvils I see at auctions with heels and horns broke off came from ! I had always hear that saying - "that boy could break and anvil" but I didn't realize how true it must be ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I seem to remember reading that a block of iron heated in the forge was the traditional method.Can anyone find a reference in the literature about how this was handled 200 years ago before shops had electricity, old flat irons and engine heaters? ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Standard quote regarding a careless person is "they could tear up an anvil with a rubber mallet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Standard joke at a former place of employment was, The foreman's test is to be locked in a padded room and either lose or break an anvil. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) This same discussion was just had on another blacksmithing site earlier this winter. Here is what I came up with for my 1894 Hay-Bud and my unheated NE Wisconsin shop. I have a 8x8x10" block of A-36 bolted to the base of my anvil for extra mass and I include it in the mass of the anvil. So I decided to get a 20' heat tape (like you would wrap your pipes with) and start at the horn and go around the heel and the waist and make the rest of it around the base block a couple of times. I leave it pluged in all the time when I'm not useing the anvil and I made a cover out of that silver backed "bubble wrap" insulation that fits closely and tie it on with bungy cords. The heat tape has a built in thermostat that keeps the anvil at about 40F. When I plan on doing some thin work (I often make rustic flatware) I will use my big "weed burner" torch to heat the anvil from the waist up so that the top plate is just warm to the touch. This is usualy not enough to dry the condensation off so I always wipe it down. My second anvil is a Russian pattern that I don't baby like the H-B (it aint 115 years old either!) and it is noticeably colder and more difficult to work on like that. This winter we had several weeks in a row that were only a high of around 0 F and I was less inclined to work out there but, when I did the pre-heated anvil made all the differance. I also found the recomended floating type stock tank heater kept my slack tub free of ice as well. Don't forget to replenish the water every so often due to evaporation. I guess I don't worry about the equipment made from modern steels so much but, that Hay-Bud is irreplacable to me so I do what I feel is needed... Edited March 3, 2009 by merl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Bedard Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Just be prepared for a LOT more heats. That's what we did at -20 centigrade. It means that something that should take about 20 minutes now takes about 90 but at least you get some work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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