TRLDaD Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 A buddy of mine who knew I was wanting to start learning basic smithing/knife making as a retirement hobby gave me an old post vise the other day. I didn't know too much about them so reached out to my Coast Guard Brother and IFI member Irondragon (Randy) for advise. He gave me his initial thoughts and recommended I make a post here for further help and info. As you can see from the photos, the end of the thread box was broken at some point and someone wedged some sheetmetal shims between the thread box and leg jaw hole. It looks as though the key on the thread box was also compromised. To me, overall the vise looks to be in good condition sans the thread box. But hours of internet searches show that while the screws and thread boxes are the most commonly damaged parts of these vises, sadly replacements aren't available. I've seen some creative fixes and am thinking if I can enlist the help of a friend who is a real welder, perhaps this broken box can be repaired. I'm not exactly sure how long the missing portion (inside the jaw before the bell flange) was. I'm thinking if I get some 2 1/2" pipe and then a cap I could possibly get it welded and functional again. Does anyone have any suggestions on ways they've repaired these? Better yet, anyone have an appropriate thread box for sale? Any input is appreciated. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 People with more expertise with post vises than I have will give you better comments and suggestions but one thing that struck me is that appears that the threads in the center part of the screw are obviously more worn than the ends. I don't know if it is enough to make a practical differende in use but I think that you should be sure that there are enough threads left that the vise will work and hold once you have somehow repaired the screw box. Also, I don't know if someone skilled in welding or brazing cast iron could just weld or braze the screw box back onto the vise. In use the force would be compressive against the vise. So, the weld/braze is not going to get a lot of force on it. That may be the easiest solution. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 PS Something else to consider is how much time and money you want to put into the project. If it is for the fun of it, great. But if it is about getting a working vise for your blacksmithing time and resources come into the equation. There are post vises on ebay for less than $200 (plus shipping unless it is close enough to pickup). A new Kanca at Blacksmith's Depot is $385 (+ shipping). And they show up on Craig's List and Facebook Marketplace and etsy and various other on line and local auctions. Post vises are generally better for a couple of reasons but you can do a lot of work with a Harbor Freight bench/machinist's vise for not much $. Just thinking of possible alternatives. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLDaD Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 (edited) GNM, you're right. Sadly, these things have crossed my mind too. Seems ashamed, that this cool old piece may be scrap. Something I'm sure the original maker could never have imagined. But, that's the world we now live in, one where everything is disposable because parts are either too costly or unavailable. I was just saying to a friend who's TV "died" that I recall the days when the TV repairman came to your home with a large hip box of tubes and other components and fixed your TV and it was a very small cost compared to buying new. Now, you just throw it away and get a new one at Wally World. Same for every major appliance in your home. I found a reference on another site where someone said back in the day Sears, Roebuck used to carry various sized post vise repair kits that included the replacement screw and thread box for $10-$20. Now wouldn't that be nice! Yeah I know, BOOMER! Guilty as charged. If I am unable to repair this myself I'll see if my buddy wants it back. If not, I will likely pass it on to someone with the advanced skills and tooling to revive it. As you've said, especially for what I plan to do, dabbling in knife making and small item smithing (think hooks, bottle openers) as gifts for friends and family I probably don't need a post vise. My buddy knew I got a little 66lb Vevor anvil for Christmas and thought I might like the vise and kindly, he gave it to me. Something I appreciate regardless. Thanks for your comments. Hopefully, others will have ideas that might yield a viable solution. Edited January 31 by Mod34 Removed unnecessary quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Just a reminder that we have to be very careful about looking at the past through the lens of how we think about the present (this is what the historians call "presentism"). A whole lot of stuff "back in the day" was just as disposable as stuff now; we just think that everything was made to a higher standard back then because (generally) it's only the good stuff that survived. Also, it's a good idea to remember to factor in inflation when looking at prices in the past: $10 had the same buying power just before WWI as over $300 today. That said, I agree that it's a real shame that the economics of consumer goods these days make it cheaper to replace than to repair. However, there is a growing community of people who prefer to take some extra time and trouble to fix things themselves; I myself recently replaced the broken screen on my son's "obsolete" cell phone at a fraction of the cost of a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoreB Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 TRL, I think your plan is straight forward and practical - it reminds me of the columbian vise boxes. If unsuccessful, replacing the original screw with an acme and nut, similar to shown in some videos online, would likely be next course of action, although more work. For me, the process is often as personally rewarding as the results. If you go forward with the repair, post pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Dad, if it were mine I'd try the welding/brazing the screw box back on but I'd make sure the welder had cast iron experience. Also, even if the screw box is unsalvagable the rest of the vise, as parts, still has value to someone. Also, do a spark test on the vise and see if it is cast iron or possibly cuctile iron or even steel. I suspect cast iron but the others are possibilities. And I agree with John, the past wasn't always better than the present. I remember tube TVs too. In the late '50s and early 60s if our TV went out I'f oprn up the back and see if there was an obvious burnt out tube and if there was I'd take it out and go to Walgreen's where they had a display of TV tubes and buy a replacement. More often than not that would fix the problem and my folks didn't need to call a repairman. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLDaD Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 (edited) JHCC, thanks, that made me chuckle a bit. I guess everyone needs an "ism" today. I don't think I suggested everything was made to a higher standard back in the day. It wasn't. I think it's more a consumer attitude that things are disposable than a true change in quality. As I said, it's also a problem of parts availability/cost even if one wanted to fix something. Your example of the cell phone is one that represents how it could be. I have done the same for my daughter and it worked out very well and saved her a lot. I hear the inflation thing all the time. Yes, I understand I was there I remember when $10 or $20 was a whole lot of money in a budget. I just see this very cool tool that someone worked hard to create and think dang, what a shame these can't be salvaged in a real way. Too bad a smith/machinist couldn't set up tooling to make repair parts. I might be in the minority in being willing to spend $100 - $125 to fit this with a new screw & box and I acknowledge it might not be worth someones time to make parts for that kind of money. After all, they need their sheckles to buy the disposable stuff they need. Kind of a cycle like chasing one's tail. I will talk to my friend he was a pipeline and fabrication welder and is FAR more skilled in the art of welding than I. Hopefully we can fix it. I certainly would still welcome input on what others have done. I will post any update when I have one. Edited January 31 by Mod34 Removed unnecessary quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 My previous vise was a "frankenvise" that had been cobbled together from the parts of at least three other vises, and the screw was quite worn out. After I got my current vise, I traded the old one to an engineering professor at OSU, who machined a new screw and screwbox just for fun. (I think he may have welded the new screw onto the old knob and handle as well, using the proper pre- and post-heating, of course.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 It's hard to say for sure without laying hands and eyeballs on it but from the pics and were it my project I'd braze or silver solder it. No, I would NOT grind big scarfs to fill with braze, nickel rod or anything. I'd degrease the breaks with aggressive solvents and apply a paste silver braze and heat the screw box, clamps and jig in an oven. Perhaps one I made with the case of insulating firebrick I have in the shop. On the other hand keeping it for parts is a good option. You WILL come across more now you have one. Of course that's just me. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLDaD Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 (edited) Frosty, Your and pretty much everyone else here's skill is far beyond my novice understanding and even more sophomoric skills. Got to be honest, I don't even understand what you've suggested. Though I do plan to research it to learn. Sounds like the screw box can't "just be welded" because it's not regular steel. I'm sure my buddy understands this though. I hope you're right about additional vises that might enter my life! Thanks again to all who have taken the time to post. Edited January 31 by Mod34 Removed unnecessary quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 This is probably more than you ever wanted to know about a leg/post vise, but some good info here. http://www.iforgeiron.com/images/tuesday/shown/485/BP0485.shtml I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Dad, First, I am not a welder. So, I am giving you my understanding as a welding lay person. Depending on when your vise was made and the manufacturer (it is fairly rare to be able to ID a vise maker. Most are unmarked.) it could be made of cast iron, ductile iron, or steel. The easiest way to tell is to do a spark test. You can look up details but it is based on the fact that different ferrous metals will produce different color and shape of sparks when touched by an abrasive wheel, often from an angle grinder but you can use a bench grinder wheel or a grinding wheel on an electric drill. If it turns out to be steel the problem is a lot easier to solve. Depending on what metal the vise is made of will affect how it is welded. Most welds are steel to steel. Cast and ductile iron take special welding rods and if the mass is large enough it may need to be preheated before welding and allowed to cool down very slowly. An alternative to welding is brazing which uses bronze rods to "glue" the two edges of cast iron together. A brazed joint is not as strong as a weld but, as I said previously, this will be a compressive force which will not put much stress on the braze or weld. As Frosty suggested, silver solder is another option. It is not as strong as welding or brazing but it might be good enough. Discuss all this with your welder friend and ask him to be honest about his experience and skill in working with metals other than steel. If he does not have the expertise go to a welding shop and discuss it. You may have to go to several because not every welder has the necessary skill and experience. Good luck and keep us informed of how it goes and post picture. We LOVE pictures. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 The screw box looks like a cast iron break and hard solder, braze, silver or one of the more exotic can be stronger. A good friend bought a text book about soldering and it turns out that if done properly the bronze and iron form an alloy at the joint surfaces and can be as strong as the parent metal. The trick is matching the joint surfaces and seeing as there are threads to align makes it a precision fix. Were it mine to repair, I'd make it as sanitary clean as I could up to acid etching the break sides. This will maintain the broken mirror surfaces and make them as easy to align as just feeling them key together. Insert the screw to keep everything straight and a couple clamps for pressure and that's how I'd make it up for the oven, furnace, whatever just so long as it heats it evenly. That's the prep, clean clean clean, match and clamps ready. With the joint surfaces as clean as you can get them apply the right amount of self fluxing paste hard solder, silver braze or silver solder. clamp and bring to the liquidus of the solder. You'll be able to tell because it will be squeezed from the joint and flow on the surface of the screw box. You WILL need the flow stop for the hard solder you choose so you don't solder the screw in the screw box. The screw needs to be in it while soldering to align the threads. Brazing it up with stick and torch can be done but it takes more practice and probably skill than I have. But if you're meticulous with the prep, self fluxing paste or powder hard solder is placed where it's needed so getting it to flow is not an issue. Powdered hard solder might need a paste flux though IIRC you can get it with the flux included. As a rule of thumb, the thinner the solder the stronger the join, the book has stables showing the ideal thickness depending on solder and material to be joined. I wish I had a copy of the book, it makes me want to experiment. I do know who I can borrow it from though. I wish I had it now so I could give specific and accurate advice. A real welding supply will have the necessary info or a book list and your local library will ILL it for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 We geeks have ILL ingraved on our hearts but for those who are only semi-geeks it stands for Inter Library Loan. It is a process by which you can access books from libraries all over the world. I have gotten books from as far away as the University of Glasgow, Scotland, UK. It is a HUGE resource when doing serious research. If you rely only on what the internet has, even as good and convenient as it is, you are ignoring a VERY valuable research tool. The internet is great for things like "what was the name of that guy in that movie?" but for serious, deep, and academic research you need to use written resources and ILL is a valuable part of that. I probably wouldn't be a blacksmith if it hadn't been for the references I got through ILL at my small town library in rural Wyoming. This was 1978 and before home computers and the internet, the Paleolithic, really. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLDaD Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 George Frosty and Irondragon thanks, that helps in understanding your suggestions. Frosty I wish I had the broken mating piece. However it’s long gone. My friend found the vise broken and “repaired” with the sheet metal shims pictured in my first post. I’ll keep you updated. I’ve also setup a search on Craig’s List to see if I find an affordable fully functional leg vise or one for parts that has a good screw and box. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 1/29/2024 at 10:05 AM, TRLDaD said: Too bad a smith/machinist couldn't set up tooling to make repair parts. I might be in the minority in being willing to spend $100 - $125 to fit this with a new screw & box and I acknowledge it might not be worth someones time to make parts for that kind of money. I had talked with a machinist friend and while he could cut them it is tedious and not an easy thing to do. So I'd say it is the cost prohibitive problem. I swear I saw somewhere that sold acme threaded rod and nuts, but for the life of me now I can't remember where I saw that or heard about it. Obviously it would need mounted to setup the spring, but did it function at all? If the threads still work it would be easier to weld up the keyway on the box so it doesn't spin and use it as is till a better option presents itself. They sell rod for welding cast iron if that is what the box is made of. If you are worried about getting grindings/filings on the screw, your idea of welding a little pipe on the end would work. Or like the bits they had ducked in there, make a tin shield to shield the top of the screw. Or just brush it off during use. Threads can be worn and still function. It is only when it slips and won't tighten and clamp the workpiece that it is worn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chenier Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 McMaster-Carr carries acme threaded rod, collars and nuts in diameters up to 2-1/2" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Thanks Chenier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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