Tool dimensions

[beefcake]

I would like to make these tools.I already made the bending fork with 3/4 sucker rod.Any advice on length and diameter for creasing tool and bottom fuller.I have grader blade for hot cut but length and diameter unknown .Advice for 3 tools would be great.I was using this as reference.

[JHCC]

Think about how big your workpieces will be, and build the tooling to suit. If it's too big, make another that's smaller. If it's too small, make another that's bigger. 

[Frosty]

I think you're looking for tools to do things only skill and experience can. The descriptions under those pictured are marketing BS. written by someone who obviously isn't a smith. About the closest to accurate description is the bending forks.

Glad I re-read your question so I could delete all the bad advice I'd written. 

First piece of STRONG advice I have for you is forget about grader edges being useful in a smith's shop. It is typically more than 1.5% carbon with up to 5% tungsten carbide granules. It's designed and made to be extremely abrasion resistant it's live is spent bolted to the bottom of a 70,000lb machine and being ground into gravel, soil or pavement with serious intent. It is VERY hard to weld without embrittlement in the "heat affect zone" and few rods will stick it to much. 

You can torch cut it but it makes ragged cuts even if you're good with a torch. Grinding it REQUIRES blue wheels, disks, cups, etc. Blue designates diamond abrasive wheels. I got stubborn about it once and discovered if I used a coarse cup on a 1 hp angle grinder it COULD be ground at medium red heat and went through grinding cups prodigiously. I don't recall exactly but I cleaned up and squared off a piece of 1" Vascowear grader edge about 6" x 4" for a little anvil to pack along on the drill. I must've gone through 4-5 coarse blue cups. The welds connecting it to the mild steel block I used for the anvil body failed pretty quickly. The short length of RR rail I replaced it with held up for maybe 15 years and last I heard was still in the tool box on the drill.

Sorry to be long winded but I have experience with grader edges almost none of it good other than on a grader blade.

If you spend time at yard/garage/rummage/etc. sales you'll find all kinds of useful tools for smithing, sometimes even blacksmith tools. Keep an eye open for mason chisels, the broad bladed ones make excellent hot hardies. The blades on hot hardies are thin because it doesn't take much force to drive hot steel onto them. Cold hardies are thick with more obtuse edges because you have to hit the work MUCH harder so they need to be stronger.

If you have an anvil just find a piece of round bar that fits the hardy hole and put a 90* bend in it. To keep it from turning in the hole if that turns out to be a problem flatten (draw) the shank until it's wider than the hardy hole is corner to corner so it can't turn. Nothing wrong with drawing it wider before bending it just don't make it a snug fit. If it turns out you wanted the fuller closer or parallel to an edge just heat the shank up put it in the hardy hole an bend it where you like it.

If your anvil has a horn use that as the fuller, I hardly use mine for anything else. Be aware the indentation it produces will be tapered so work it facing both directions across the horn to correct. Of course a tapered fuller makes for useful and interesting shapes. Also and even better, the horn is a tool room full of different fuller sizes. 

The creasing tool is almost exactly like making the fuller I just described BUT. Pick round rod close to half the size of the hardy hole, a LITTLE larger is fine but don't get carried away. Determine how long you want the creaser, add about 4x the thickness of your anvil at the hardy hole and fold it in half in the middle. Bring the free ends together and parallel and weld the ends so they can't move. It won't hurt at all to stitch a couple few little beads on the bottom side so the rails can't spread. Forge the shank (folded) end so it slips into the hardy hole and extends a little through the anvil. The bit extending through is so you can drive it out if it jams. Hmmm? Take a good heat about where the shank meets the anvil face high orange is a nice color but low yellow is okay, just don't get carried away. Slip the shank into the hardy hole to depth and bend it flush with the anvil face.

Grind the ends of your creaser so it doesn't leave sharp marks in your work. Sharp inside corners are stress concentrators where failures initiate. This is B A D!

I highly recommend you NOT paying money for tools like those pictured. If you're not sure please take a pic and let us have a look, we won't steer you wrong.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[anvil]

Heres an IFI thread on grader blade that might be useful. I use grader blade for all my scrolling wrenches and bending forks.

 

[beefcake]

Thanks Frosty ,Anvil.I dont have a fully functional forge right now.I have an old coal forge that I believe is cast steel,but is missing tuyere and is cracked all the way up one side through old weld.I only have stand and forge bowl thats it .I have some nickel rod and various ss rods ,preheat before welding and slow down cool post weld.Have to sort that out.For now just using woodstove to heat and bend metal.I have enough 7/8 and 15/16 square stock for hardy base .Zip cut and weld for tool construction.Pardon my terminology.I do have a few mason chisels,wide ones.I did make a tile scraper from grader blade but didnt weld near working edge.Pipe handle G blade scraper worked good on vinyl and ceramic.Will try to get pics. of beat up forge.Thanks again

[beefcake]

Bending fork I made.

[Frosty]

Your forge pan is cast Iron, not steel and susceptible to cracking from differential heating and cooling. Does it say, "Clay Before Using" cast proud in the pan? Don't get fancy all it needs is clayey soil mixed about 1 pt clay-ish to 2 or 3 pts sandy and BARELY moist enough to pack hard when rammed with a mallet or end of a 2"x4". Mixing it wet like concrete or pottery clay WILL crack as it dries. Moisture in the soil takes up space and when it dries out the soil particles shrink to fill the voids. Clays are not flexible enough to do so without cracking, same as a dry mud puddle. Including sand in the mix provides articles that can move as it dries and allow steam to vent and prevents spalling.

I have one very much like yours including the crack, I've had it since the late 70s and it's still a good working forge. Even though I use a propane forge primarily.

You're going to be bending HOT steel / iron it actually takes little force and bending forks don't need to be nearly that thick. Also you only bend around  the forks you, well most smiths don't hammer against them, I have a friend who does and it makes me cringe. Those will work fine for turning larger bends but tightening them up on the anvil face only takes practice. My bending forks are probably more than 100 years old made by, "Atha," I think and each "tine" is less than 5/8" forged steel.

If you have to pull hard when you're turning rings or scrolls, the stock isn't hot enough, put it back in the fire. 

Check out the JABOD (Just A Box Of Dirt) forge. They're very simple to build and an old yard sale hair drier makes more air than they need for heavy work. There are lots of fancied up ideas and "plans" for the JABOD but they shine as examples of the KISS principle.

One last word, just because it's a tool for blacksmithing doesn't mean it needs to be thick or heavy. Viking smiths made all the iron products necessary for a multiple industry civilization with hammers running to 1.5-2 lbs. Even the sledges weren't of heroic weight. There is a LOT of Viking artefacts on display online.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[beefcake]

Thanks for that Frosty, all I see is 150 on underside of forge.Nothing else.

[Frosty]

You're welcome, it's my pleasure. Don't sweat who made it, it's a fine forge pan. A 1" or so layer of compacted soil will disperse the heat from the fire over a larger area so the casting is less likely to crack further. I forgot to mention why you clay a forge pan.

Yeah, I lose myself all the time. <sigh>

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

It looks like someone tried to weld up the crack and didn't know how to weld cast iron. I have seen several of those rivet forge cracks repaired with flat steel plates bolted to the underside of the pan.

 

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[beefcake]

How does a guy weld cast? That could be another option Irondragon.

[JHCC]

Like Frosty said, don't bother trying to weld up the pan; just go ahead and pack in a layer of dirt. The absence of a tuyere is a much bigger problem!

[beefcake]

Lots of clay around here.Maybe ( commercial link removed per TOS)a guy could build something like this .If thats whats needed.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mod30
Commercial link removed.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I caught the link before it was removed. It's just a round fire grate available through just about any of the blacksmith supply stores. I bought this one about 15 years ago and it's still going strong If I remember right through Kayne & Sons Blacksmith Depot.. Mine is just set in fire clay and it's easily removed for cleaning.

 

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[Shainarue]

You can also get a metal drain cover - that's what I got to replace the one on my rivet forge.

Only the center 7 holes are exposed for air.  The other holes lined up for me to attach to the original bolt placement.

[George N. M.]

I once used a drain cover but it was cast iron instead of steel.  It sagged and deteriorated much faster than a steel plate with drilled holes.

GNM

[beefcake]

Looks like I have a project.Thanks all.

[BillyBones]

My first coal forge i took a piece of plate steel maybe 1/8" or so and drilled a bunch of holes in. It lasted till i built the one i have now, couple years maybe a bit less. My forge now just has 3 metal bars about 1/4" diameter across a 3" tuyere opening. I have heard tale of someone who has no grate at all in their forge as well.