Pigsticker Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 was thinking of starting by setting my welds on the two ends of a bright wire steel cable 2' or so. If I set the end welds, can I loosen the cable and drop .5" x6" strips inside the cable around the core with any results. This would cook flat in a propane forge, the cable is clean and I've heard it has to be flipped regular. many thanks to responders and readers. Would the copper ruin my new matrikote over kastolite forge interior more than steel? Does burning copper go poisonous? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 If you try to weld up the cable with copper in it, the steel will not weld up. The cumai thing it real popular right now, but you have to weld the steel layers first. Otherwise the copper will melt before the steel it at weld temperature and stop it from welding. Best you could end up with is the strands braised together. (Pretty advanced stuff…) Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 Thanks for quick response I was hoping it'd be easy. Thank you on behalf of my forge for keeping it copper free. That would work w nickel right? ( Dont have any nickel pipes I know of) Many thanks again, you saved a forge undue misery. Pigus S No problem here with Japanese folks at all Could I braise my cable ends with copper and have it hold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 With nickel it would probably be fine. There is a Bladesmith in our group who regularly forge welds billets of different steels with sheets of nickel mixed in. I’ve never asked him if there is any specific technique to it though. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 Thanks for your replies. If you come up with him doing anything ,"different" let me know. Nickel seems easier to pretend with. I know the melting point of nickel is closer to steel than copper, I hope, so ok. I don't have surpluses of nickel yet but I'll get it. Is there any old enough nickel coins that I could use? Pre-1967 etc. Oh well, no penny excitement this weekend. Take care all, Pigus S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Pigsticker said: Does anyone have reason to believe I could or could not not dump spoons of powder nickel in the cable when I open it for cleaning. Many thanks, I've never seen nickel powder in non advertisement form. Bet it's $$$. Tx Does powder always have to go in canisters, of can you lightly coat weldable colored steel and retain it for design purposes. Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Ni does not weld to itself below 2600F degrees or so, just a FYI, and why do you insist on doing so many difficult things rather than learning the basics? like that copper melts too low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velegski Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 1. Unless you know who manufactured the cable is a mystery steel. That means you have to experiment with welding techniques and temperatures. 2. Copper melts at around 1975 degrees F. Which is probably well below your steels welding temp. Meaning it's probably going to be on the forge floor long before you reach the steels welding temp. 3. Pure Nickle powder is best played with while wearing a respirator. Improper handle can't resist in illness and lung damage. 4. Any powdered powder steel requires compression to become a solid. Just dumping it in between strands is a waste. Hammering the cable to set the welds will probably drive most of the powder out with any flux you use. To achieve some contrast people have taken cable down to the large strands and woven nickle or nickel bearing steel wire into the strand and then reassembled the . cable bundle. Those that I've seen weren't impressive. AND as pointed out solid nickel touching Just my 2 cents but what you're trying isn't a beginners task and the end product is often less than impressive. But, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 Velegski- really appreciate the tips. Especially the nickle breathing thing. That was no where near my radar and I even go the mouth guard piece so I'm thrilled to have somewhere else to wear it. In your answer you covered my next 4 questions hoping to validate the attempt. Bully. S sells- I'm still looking for the guy in a safari suit to do free welding on my cable ends you sent me out for in my last post. ( Remember the boonie hat? Socks and sandals...) Plus, theres plenty of people to do the basics. All I need is your belief that I can really do it. I'd take that any day over advice. I've got it don't I, your blessings?? Don't leave me hanging.... Tx No nickel or pennies, some art for everyman, especially NOT the lay man Pigus s Thanks for help Btw nickle melts at 4800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Beside the compression needed for working powder metal the other thing that is required is that powdered metal exposed to the atmosphere at high temperatures will oxides rapidly, even nickel, so you won't have benefit of metal powder but rather oxide contamination. This is one reason why powder is used in cans. The atmosphere in the can can be controlled to prevent this oxidation. Steve-Nickel melts at about 2650 F. Also, according to R. F. Tylecote on page 220 of Solid Phase Welding of Metals, pure nickel can be welded at room temperature but a deformation of 89% is required. He cites a paper by A. B. Sowter published in 1948 in Materials and Methods, vol 28 pg 60-63 for this infomation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 Thanks for the thorough info. I was hoping I'd found a famous but forgotten medieval technique. I'm not using canisters ( no welding gun) just cable so I'm on the wrong side of this. Do I need to hit the 2650 if I can melt the steel "to" the nickel. Can't I make the steel sticky enough alone? Also, I know sparking is the steel burning. Does it significantly degrade the steel to achieve this effect. If I always start welding on first spark is that too so late? Lastly, what's the best way to fill a green bean sized hole in a 1/3" billet and when do I fill it?. And finally, what will identify burned steel? Is there a thing to look for before working the material. Many thanks, Pig S. of Topsail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I got temps of Molybdenum (4750F) confused with nickel (2650F), I corrected the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Steve- I understand. An interesting thing about molybdenum is that because it has such a high melting temperature it can be used as a forging die material for situations in which you want the dies themselves to be heated to the same temperature as the work piece. This method is used for some areospace forgings made by the closed die method. However, molybdenum oxidizes extremely rapidly at these temperatures so these forging setups are done in a vacuum. Pigsticker- You can get steel and nickel hot enough to weld, which can actually be done at a temperature lower than the melting temperature, but that will only happen if the materials being joined are free of any oxide coating. Oxidation of metals happens very rapidly at forging temperatures so you have to find a method to prevent this if you want to have effective forge welding, no matter what metals are being used. Quite often some type of flux, usually borox based is used. In other cases the billet is sealed in a container or by some other method to keep oxygen out of the system. Burning steel is really the carbon in the steel reacting so rapidly with the oxygen in the environment that it combusts. When this happens there is often also melting of the steel. There really is no way to convert burned steel back to good steel but if burned material is just on the surface or on one end it can be cut or ground off and the remainder of the billet can still be used. Ideally you'd start welding just before sparking starts but if you get just a little bit of sparking you likely can steel proceed with good results. As far as identifying burned steel I suggest you get a scrap and burn it on purpose so you have an example to use for comparison. Filling a hole in a billet is not a simple task and I'm not sure how to advise you on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 Many thanks for all the answers to my questions. And you spotted the 2100 degree misquote or misunderstanding. Everyone can go back to normal now. I always forget that flux is a coating as well as bonding "assistant"., I guess by preventing oxidation. Trying to learn on cable has me at a very different way of thinking. Between my context and limited metal/forgingucation and unwavering optimism this stuff is getting fun. Even had fake news! Pig S. Ticker Happy new year all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigsticker Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 Does anyone have new year advice on loading 3' of cable into a 9" forge to weld while holding by hand. Like pushing 18" in one side and pulling last 18" from the back of forge. I can get to both sides of forge. It's on the floor now to fight extreme warpage. Really want to hold the greasy cable by hand so I can spin it and don't wanna burn my hand glovelessly. Many thanks and happy new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 You should be able to hold the cable by hand if it is more than about 16" away from the hot portion. Iron is not that good of a heat conductor. That is why you can fry an egg in a cast iron frying pan and still be able to hold the handle without discomfort. I'd try to degrease the cable before I put it in the forge to give me a better grip, avoid setting the grease on fire, and to keep things cleaner. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I've been hoping to "Hulk" with a combination of Gamma Rays and a steroid; but so far no luck! I've complained to my Oncologist several times already about the lack of any decent super power after all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Are you wearing purple stretch waist band pants? Hmmmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.