Champion #1 Power Hammer

[MRB]

Hey Fellas!

 

  I’m a full time smith now, and have been moving more towards the knife world and would really love to pick up a power hammer for beveling and profiling. My steel supplier has a 25 pound LG he’s willing to sell to me, but I also happened to stumble across a #1 Champion Hammer. How do the Champion hammers compare to LG? I assume it’s harder to find parts for the Champion, but is it a better hammer? Funny how when you’re not looking for something you stumble across em! Just like trying to find your first anvil.

 

thanks in advance 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The LG is hard to beat seeing as they are still in business, so parts are available along with tech support.

[anvil]

I agree. 

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

From what I’ve been told the champion is the superior hammer but there is no parts for them so everything has to be made by machine shops, spring shops, ect…

that being said a champion #1 is a 60 pound hammer so it’s more then double the 25 pound little giant so if you have a need for more power I’d go with the champion, 

if your doing lighter work an want easier parts availability then go with the little giant 

[onetreeforge]

Get them both and and then one can have different dies and you dont need to make the choice on witch hammer to buy

[Frosty]

The Champion would be easier to rebuild or repair without factory parts, you can get springs arched at any decent spring shop and pouring babbit is pouring babbit where ever. 60lbs is a nice size for heavier work. 

The LG is a sweet hammer and parts are available, but it isn't good for very heavy work. You can do light work on a heavy hammer once you learn to control it.

Bear in mind I've never looked a Champ over in person and I own a 50lb. LG which I'm pretty familiar with.

How much room do you have in your shop?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Philip Typaldos Waters]

I'm in the process of restoring a Champion No 1 hammer and working on documenting that process as well as a bunch of other information about the history of these hammers.  
The page is about 75% completed. 

Hopefully this will be helpful. 
https://www.watersironworks.com/mclane-or-champion-power-hammer/

Pouring new babbit this Thursday hopefully.

[PaulF]

I am also refitting a 65lb no1. I have herd conflicting reports. but, I have observed that the champion I have, is solid cast Iron, no hollow cavities, to break this would be very unlikely. All the parts I have jury rigged were easy to fab from standard bar and plate stock.

The hammer can draw a 1" sq bar to a needle taper in about 2 min.

Unless the casting is broken at some place I can vouch for the champion 65 pounder.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I to have a 65lb #1. Philip I wrote an whole page on the adjustment of the head distance as well as up keep. I have been using mine for 15 years. Love it. it may be the angle your are shooting from but it seems that your spring is off center. If not the spring could be the adjustments on the hammer guide. 

 

Info from other users

 

The only place you should not oil is on the drive belt surface area.
One main thing to do.
Make sure the toggle arms. The four arms that conect the ram to the spring arm, are drawn up so they are almost level. Not level. About 3/4" slop. you can measure this by holding a straight edge across the pins holding the arms at the spring, and the main pin through the ram should be about 3/4" of an inch below the straight edge. Play with this to find the optimum stroke for your hammer. This will also be affected by how far down you set the whole ram and spring arm assembly. To start tunning I would set that halfway with the double set screw holding the main pin.
Going back to the toggle arms. If they are too sloppy, the hammer will skip or double hit. When they are too tight you stand a good chance of snapping the toggle arm at the spring pin junction.
One other member recomended not over driving the bottom die wedge. RIGHT ON! My hammer was repaired due to this long before I got it. It is much better to re tighten the wedges every so often than to crack that front piece out. When mine was repaired they set the cracked piece back in place, drilled and tapped for three 3/4" bolts, bolted the 3 bolts after that, then they ground a V all the way around the 3 outside planes and welded it. I have had no problems with it, but I baby it there.

 

As for other suggestions make sure the arm pins fit well in the spring arm holes. Where the spring wraps around the pin. Those pins should be no more than a 1/16" smaller than the spring holes. If they are sloppy the hammer won't hit right. One of the #0's I tunned had like 1 1/4" pins in a 1 3/4" hole. WAY to sloppy.

The dovetail ways should be a little looser than you might think. Very scientific sounding, I know. But the best thing to do with them is after you have the hammer up and running. Move them in and out with the set screws until they are snug but not so snug as to stop the ram mid way in its stroke.

 

That Champion is in super shape. The guides are like new in the thing and with that overhead jackshaft it should give very nice control. One thing that was wonky on that hammer was the brake did not engage when the treadle was up, It might return back to where it should be one the motor is in place and under tension. What I would do with that hammer is carfully scribe the outline of the smaller die onto the bigger die and then take them into a machine shop that can mate them up and flatten them out. I would do a combination style die with the fuller at front. if you change the motor its pretty critical to get the speed right so take note of the pulley diameter on that 5 horse. I ran my last one with a 110V 1.5HP motor and it worked perfectly. If it was going to be in severe use I would step up to a 2HP Once you get it timed right, the brake engaging and the toggles adjusted that hammer should give you single blow capability. One thing that will help down the road is make your self up a set of wood blocks to set the working hight of the upper die. at rest you want that die to be about a 1/8 above the thickness your working for the best control and hardest hit. I kept mine adjusted so when you rolled the machine over by hand the upper die would come within about 1/4" of the lower die and I didnt move it up until I got over 3/4 stock unless I was going to do real fine work..

 

should clarify in the earlier post about setting the die position... that 1/4 clear between the die is with the crank on its lowest possible position on the flywheel and with the toggle arms pulled good and tight on the spring and a very well adjusted hammer... Most hammers with a little slop in them you would need more like 3/4 of a inch to get a solid wack but yet have a light touch... and thats if your forging 1/4 or 3/8 stock... if your forging 1" bar you would need more like 1 3/4 clear at idle and the lowest position... Thats one of those things that really impacts performance and you just need to play with your hammer to see what works best... start with half a dozen 5/8 or 3/4 square bars that are a foot long with a center punch mark at 8" ( if you dont want to hold it with tongs make them as long as you want I guess) get them all up to temp and consistently forge out as long of taper as you can in one heat from the center punch mark... make an adjustment and go to the next one.... listen to how and where in its stroke the hammer hits and how hard of blows it lands... and it it is double tapping or missing a beat (way out of tune) its surprising how drastic of change you can get... also it will show you directly what your adjustments do

Also I said I would do combo dies on that hammer and the only reason for that is because unlike a little giant the center of the tup weight is centered in the skinny of the die so working on either end has much less of a negative effect on the hammer.. and since it sounds likely this will be your primary hammer and its relatively small ( but capable ... a 65lb Champion that is well tuned will almost do the work of a run of the mill 100lb little Giant though) its sure nice to have fullering dies to quickly break down material and blend transitions..... If you have any questions Id be happy to help... I have owned two #1's and done some pretty major work on them including pouring new bearings in one....

 

oiling use SAE 30 for all contact points

 

After doing a lot of research the original dies had three round swedges in the die 1/4”-3/8”-1/2” one of my dies had been refaced with hard facing rod and the swedges were filled in so I opted to fill in the top die as well and make all my tools clamp on to the bottom die. Like Clay Spencers method. Makes changing out fast I use a C clamp with a piece of angle iron as the base to all my tools so far I am pleased with how it works,