Thoughts on small air hammers? (Anyang 15kg/33lb)

[Bob Brandl]

I bought mine new from James for $5500 after taxes and everything. It was an older style, and I got $3250 for it when I sold it a few years later. It was in very good shape, with very little use. I'm not surprised by the $2000 figure for an older one these days.

[Vinito]

Well it arrived today, along with a little forge of my own the guy sold me. I think both are awesome!

I know I'm new and a large hammer definitely hits harder, but I am thoroughly impressed at how hard it hits! The pic shows after a single heat on a 1" mild steel bar I was just playing with to experiment. Holy cow, it would have taken sooo much longer by Armstrong hammer.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

That's a good looking forge too. Welcome to the world of more power. I believe the forge has a cast iron pan, if so it should be lined with clay to prevent it from cracking.

Did I mention I'm envious.

[Vinito]

I guess I'm learning stuff... fixing stuff too.

On the fixing, the hammer itself is in pretty good shape. Apparently not used much as there is really no signs of wear. However, the base and foot treadle mechanism was thrown together in a hurry and really janky, so I'm rebuilding the treadle and some of the linkage arms and sprucing up the base. The tubing underneath the base is awful and not needed so I'm just going to remove it and anchor it to the floor with a 1" thick hard rubber pad between (I had the rubber already in my scrap pile).

The forge is OK. I added some tool racks and casters. They not only will hold hammers & tongs & such, but also beef up the spindly legs and makes the forge more solid. Also, it set a little low so I raised it up a few inches too.

So that's the fixing. With this stuff in my own shop, I'm just now starting to get set up so I can actually work some metal now & then. I'm starting to figure out what I like and what I don't. For instance, the crank handle blower on the forge is OK, but I seem to jones for an electric blower. It just seems like you can spend a lot of time just trying to get the fire hot enough to do its thing, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to add some kind of controllable motor or blower to the thing. It just seems that would be a fair bit easier. At my age, not only will the hammer save me some literal pain, but easing up on the effort running the forge will be a bit more than simple convenience.

On the other hand, I feel pretty good about my hammers. Not a large selection (four), but they are complementary, fill a good range of weights and are now dressed pretty nicely. Now I just need to start making tongs... lots of tongs... did I mention I'm really short on tongs?

So neither is quite "finished" but here are a couple pics of where it's at.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I can't really tell but if the forge pan isn't lined with clay, you run the chance of it cracking. Personally I prefer the hand crank blowers. They use a lot less coal than the electric blowers and I can heat steel with mine to the point of burning it up.

[Vinito]

I guess that chance exists, but the evidence suggests that since it hasn't been lined with clay and yet isn't cracked at over 70 years old (maybe a lot more?), then maybe that's a chance worth taking. If I trash the thing, I'll own up to it and deal with that then. Or maybe someday I'll line it, I dunno yet. I keep forgetting so I have to take that back a bit. It does already have a crack which has been patched up in a way. You can see the patch in the photo. But it's in a place that wouldn't get hot whatsoever so it probably happened moving it around or dropping something on it or something. Anyway, it's not pristine or anything but no heat damage, so lining it is a back-burner low priority thing for me at the moment.

We all have our preferences. I prefer to minimize the aches and pains that come with my age, so I'll probably do some kind of controllable electric blower. I did notice that a fair number of experienced smiths use human-powered blowers so I figured I'd warm up to it. But that hasn't happened so far. Most all my activities contribute to my aches and pains, but I can't help it. I just enjoy building stuff and can't not do it. Just have to keep figuring out workarounds.

[George N. M.]

Vinito, I have a rivet forge with a cast iron pan which has "clay before using" cast into it.  When I first started forging I tried lining it with fire clay.  It didn't work well.  All it did was combine with the clinkers for a mess.  I have used it for 40+ years without clay and haven't had a problem.  Just be careful when firing it up in particularly cold weather and be careful about extinguishing the fire with water.  Also, keep the fire centered over the tuyere.  If the cast iron cracks you can repair it by drilling holes on either side of the crack and putting a staple across the crack or brazing.  Drill a hole at the end of the crack to prevent it from propogating.

All that said, I have a forge similar to yours that I hope to have running as soon as I can get it moved under the chimney hole in my shop and I plan to clay it before using.  I know more about the process than I did 40 years ago.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Vinito, to me you are just a puppy at mid 50s. I like the exercise a hand cranked blower affords and at 79 I plan on using mine for as long as I'm able. It sure would be a shame to crack that old forge and have to do a make shift repair. This is a good thread about that, even though the pictures were lost its still a good read.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/34340-to-clay-or-not-to-clay/

 

[George N. M.]

As about 2d senior in age here to Irondragon (75) I agree about still being able to crank and forge.  However, we all age differently and some may have injuries or degenerations which he and I have not had.  Some kind of rotator cuff injury may preclude cranking.  However, with gradual increase in motion and exercise you may be able to build up strength and motion.  Treat blacksmithing like any other physical activity and work up gradually.  Warming up and stretching can help.

I have been fortunate in my aging and am seldom guessed my age.  It all has to do with picking the right parents.  My attitude is be 75, look 55-60, and act about 30.

There is a thread about handicapped smiths who have had to accommodate various disabilities.

Also, female smiths (some of whom are VERY good smiths) often have to use work arounds because they tend not have as much upper body strength as those of us with a Y chromosome.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I’m not an expert on the Matter by no means but I have been dragging home truck loads of rusty blacksmithing stuff for years,

I can say that I’ve came across many cracked up cast iron forges with horrible patch jobs, especially on old rivet forges, but the pans that were taken care of are perfect even on hundred year old pans, 

I’ve also seen old forges like George’s that say clay before using, 

just my two cents,

but it takes less time to put clay in a cast iron pan then it would to go through the headache of repairing one, 

On the blower subject, to each their own

I like to use them, it seems to me that they afford more control over the fire, and I don’t think they really take all that much effort to use, agin just my two cents 

 

[Frosty]

Vinito: Clay or not is up to you, it's your forge but how do you know that forge hasn't been clayed all or most of it's working life? Clay in a forge pan isn't fired or a hard setting refractory, it's typically ditch or garden soil rammed hard about 1" or so thick with a gradual depression to the air grate. It's easy to remove and a couple rain showers removes any evidence.

All clay in a forge pan does is disperse the heat differential over a wider area and reduce stress within the iron. Cast iron isn't noted for flexibility so having a "small" area HOT and the area surrounding it cool can cause serious stresses, enough to make it find it's own pressure relief. POP!

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

There is a WIDE range of hand crank blowers; some are a joy to use, easy to crank and keep sailing on when you release it. Others are a pain and take force to turn the crank and stop dead when you release it.  I sell on any of the latter ones; life is too short to use a "pain to crank".  The big thing with an electric blower is that new smiths tend to ruin more metal and use more coal.  Once you get how to use it laid down in your synapses they can be great.  Switching back and forth can be tricky!

Also a factor in how they work depends on the coal you are using; some coals do better with an electric blower than others.

I've given up on cast iron forges for the most part after a number of CRACK incidents.  I prefer steel, (and for my time period demos both cast iron and steel (and coal) is way too modern anyway. Twin single action bellows,  wrought iron, charcoal and adobe is the way to go!)

[Adodero]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:08 PM, Vinito said:

Is it just me missing something or does the ram appear to only have about 5" of travel with those tall dies taking up all the space in between? Seems odd. I'm suddenly suspect of my original enthusiasm. I guess I could whip up some shorter dies, but it's a head-scratcher.

Be careful doing this. There is nothing protecting the stuffing box and the ring that retains it from the ram slamming into it if the dies are too short, it could rip it out. I wouldn't go modifying them to be shorter without being certain of how much space is between the top of the ram and the stuffing box with the ram at full extension, and accounting for a fair margin.