LonelyIsle Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Hey guys, building my first propane powered gas forge out of a 5 gallon air tank. This is also my first post on this site. Its got a diameter of 10 1/4 inches. I plan on using 2 layers of rigidized 1 inch refractory wool rated for 2600 F (#8) as well as either Mizzou or Kasto-lite 30 in a 1/2 inch layer. The floor may be thicker and will have a piece of kiln shelving to protect from dings and flux. Also a coating of ITC-100 on everything. Now this would leave me with approximately 5" diameter 11.5 inches long. I plan on forge welding damascus billets and smaller items, knives mainly but am giving myself doors on both ends with 5" openings and ledges to give me a pass through if need it and so I can block off either the front or back with a brick if need be. I am working on building a ribbon burner 4x4 but I am concerned that it may be too much with such a small space. Does anyone have any experience with small ribbon burners? Also where would be the best place to put a thermocouple? I'd like to use the forge to heat treat my blades although I do have a kiln should I choose to use that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Welcome aboard... I tried putting in a thermocouple but it melted the bulb. I also decided to use the kiln for tempering blades, because I can control the time & temperature better. We have a saying here "pictures or it didn't happen" and we love pictures, they just have to be resized for the forum to accept the upload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Your forge is going to end up narrower than the average five-gallon forge, which is good for knife making; but, that changes other things. You will probably be well served with the openings you plan; just use brick baffle walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 My concern is that i am too small to use a ribbon burner. If so I may go the venturi route but I would prefer ribbon or even NARB. I spent the morning getting all the paint off and prepping for welding.. should have some pics for ya guys tomorow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Good Morning, Vancouver Island Blacksmith Association has a meeting tomorrow, Sunday August 30. Shop opens about 9:00am, meeting will be outside starting at 11:00am. Luxton Fairgrounds, 1040 Marwood Ave, Victoria BC. Bring your forge so we can help you. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 I wish I could, I live on Denman Island in the Comox Valley. If I'd have known about it a little earlier, I may have been able to make it down there. Where can I find out about more of these events? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 Still need to finish getting all the paint off before I can weld my legs and some door hinges. My refractory comes in Tuesday so I'll cut the door holes once she is lined and then set my ledges up. Havent fully committed to a burner yet but would like to come in at a tangent whichever way I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 Got prepped for welds. Got my refractory in.. decided to try to go with the frosty Tburner. Hoping I will get to forge weld heat with one. Here's what I've got so far. Still need to get high press regulator, manometer and needle valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 If the interior of the forge isn't too small that it would become damaged I could also try this set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Good Morning, Start with one burner, when you get it working, do the same thing to the other burner. Burners react differently when they are put into a Forge, checking them running in a Vice proves nothing. The Forge will cause a reaction with the refractory, when the inside starts getting warm/hot. Close the ends and allow someplace for the exhaust to come out. Air in, must have Air Out. There are a group of Smiths in the Coombs, Parksville, Spyder Lake, Qualicum, North West Bay area. One fellow joins them from Campbell River. Just a short Fairy ride away. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 LonleyIsle: What's the length of the mixing tube of the burner in the first pic? Lose all that iron pipe hanging off your burner! The single most important thing to get right building a naturally aspirated burner is aligning the jet as straight down the center of the mixing tube as possible. With all that weight hanging off it ANY BUMP will knock it out of alignment. Put the 1/4 turn shut off valve by the regulator so if something goes wrong you can shut it off quickly without reaching into the flames. Make sense? Manometer?! What for? You are burning propane, not natural gas a manometer is for ounces of pressure not lbs. Do yourself a favor and do NOT put a gauge on it, or like every new guy who does, you'll ignore how to tune your burner by trying to match whatever some other guys on the internet think it should be. Learning to tune it by eye and ear is actually easy. Once you know how to tune it is a good time to put a gauge in the circuit so you can just set the pressure to the temperature you need. There is a port on the regulator for a gauge, don't put it anywhere near the forge What's the square box and pipe nipple you're welding up? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 Thanks for the advise Frosty, new to all this but I've tried to do as much research as I could lurking in the forums the past weeks the mixing tube is 8 inch long 3/4. I also have the 1 inch to 3/4 reducer not pictured. Ill get the shut off moved back because yes that does make sense. As for the manometer I meant pressure gauge but I think I'll hold off on that one for now Originally I had a 2 inch pipe leading into a 4x4x4 box i was going to attempt making a ribbon burner or possibly an NARB with it but making the switch to frosty t and going to experiment with that other one in the future Also I'm just curious is there some way to make some form of adjustment nut or screw to back the mig tip forward or back? Just curious, haven't seen anything about that yet.. but I have just recently made the switch On 9/1/2020 at 1:34 AM, swedefiddle said: There are a group of Smiths in the Coombs, Parksville, Spyder Lake, Qualicum, North West Bay area. One fellow joins them from Campbell River. Just a short Fairy ride away. thanks for the tip about the other group. That's definitely something I could be interested in. Most likely I will go with the one burner.. i think i am approximately going to be around 300 cubic inches so 2 I think might be damaging to the forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 According to the Frosty T burner plans the length of your mixing tube should be 8D. In other words the length of the mixing tube should be 8x the diameter of the pipe. Consequently, 8 * 0.75 = 6" mixing tube. However, burners are not something I have experience with so I'm going to bow out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) How did I miss that :p thanks for the help Edited September 1, 2020 by Mod30 Excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Yes there is a way to make the jet's depth adjustable but it uses 1/8" scd, 80 pipe to mount the mig tip. The pipe in turn is mounted in a sleeve with a locking screw. This allows you to loosen the screw to slid the jet in or out as desired and lock it in place. There are detailed directions but I don't know the location. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Okay so after getting back to the drawing board this is what I could come up with using the available fittings. Going into town to pick up propane and copper tubing this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 The guys have been successfully using 1/4" flare to flare couplers to make up copper tubing to the T and mig tip. 1/8 pipe to 1/4" flare fittings with a small enough ID to thread for the mig tip are hard to find. The flare to flare fittings are common. Take the drill bit you need for the tap with you so you can gauge fittings that can be tapped. If the ID is too small, that's just fine you can chase it with the drill bit. Good grief I posted my reply THEN realized you're in BC so you're metric, right? A welding supply should have the right sized tap and pilot drill for the threads on the mig tips you buy. Having to clean up the threads in mig guns is pretty common so they carry the tools. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 Okay I'll see what I can find in town.. i take it i want as little as possible attached that could throw off my mig tip placement? problem is I live on a small island off of Vancouver island so I try to only make town runs every couple weeks or more if I can help it. The little hardware store we have has a very limited supply amd asking people to grab parts in town for me has yielded questionable results at times. Going to town myself this weekend so hoping I'll have more to choose from. Yes we are Metric.. ive got a couple .035 mig tips with a m28 thread on them and the tap already. Going to have to buy a tap and drill for the for the 1/8th pipe thread but might have one kicking around somewhere. Also just bought a miller 135 so definately going to be hitting welding store anyways no matter what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 If you can get the flare to flare coupler fitting you can use a straight thread rather than a tapered pipe thread in the T. Yes the less you have hanging off the burner the less the fittings can move and less change it'll knock the jet out of alignment. Perhaps Teenylittlemetalguy will pipe in, he uses metric fittings in his Ts. They're what he picked up and has been using them ever since. Lots of wire feed welders are metric here now so our welding suppliers have every darned thing in stock. He can give you more specific help, tips and tricks. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Good Morning Frosty, Lots of Metric and SAE are available. Most pipe fittings and hose are not Metric. (dash)-8=1/2", -4=1/4", just like there is no border. Any hydraulic business will have the fittings, probably Home Despot as well. Between Courtenay and Parksville, Denman and Hornby Island are connected to Vancouver Island by Ferry or personal flotation device (boat, canoe, raft, hitchhike, jump on a log boom). Necessity allows the creative mind to find the means. There are always neighbors going to town. Neil Good Morning, Lonely There is no m28. That is 1/4-28 National Fine. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Makes sense Neil, thanks. Home Depot like most big box stores only carries a small selection of high volume fittings and flare fittings don't make the list in Wasilla Alaska. Lonely, check what threads your mig contact tips have many are not 1/4- 28 close but not quite. Mikey knows but I don't recall. It'll be on the lable of the tips you get. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 The most common thread found on American MIG contact tips is 1/4-27, which can be CAREFULLY fit into standard /4-28 threads on a steel fitting. Also, manufacturers are slowly switching over to /4-28 threads on MIG tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 Thanks for the tips guys. Got most of my shell welded together today... haven't touched a welder in 15 years but I can live with the final product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyIsle Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Made it into town. This the the fitting I found in town it looks like I should be able to tap my .035 in with a 1/8 m28. Need to grab a regulator and the bottle still. Then get some insulation in my shell then hopefully start cooking soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Looks like you are getting a good handle on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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