First Forge Build

[Mikey98118]

You are probably aware that hot-work and lumber don't go well together. I have found that plastic base paint on the woodwork, can is that problem.

[LonelyIsle]

Sorry which are you referring to mikey, the forge stand is a BBQ roller that i cut the wheels off of.. the wooden workbench being built is mainly for assembly and whatnot

[LonelyIsle]

I traced my hole using the piece of pipe and a sharpie. I  then used a small 4.5 disc angle grinder with a cutting disc and cut a groove in about half depth on the inside of my mark (making sure to leave the marks on it so I dont go too big). Then I used the same grinder to cut my circle  into pizza slices all the way through. Then used a hammer/pliers  to wiggle them back and forth until they snapped off. Hope that helps.

 

BTW everyone, ended up in the hospital for two weeks after 2/3 weeks of being unwell. Am recovering soon and have my reg now so I will hopefully have some fire to show you soon, depending on my health.

[Jealdi]

Glad you are recovering! I finally managed it with my hand drill and a hole saw bit for metal.

[Mikey98118]

On 9/13/2020 at 2:19 PM, LonelyIsle said:

Sorry which are you referring to mikey, the forge stand is a BBQ roller that i cut the wheels off of.. the wooden workbench being built is mainly for assembly and whatnot

I was referring to any unfinished lumber in a shop where hot work is going on.

[LonelyIsle]

Well, it took much longer than I’d have hoped but I’m finally recovered enough to have gotten some work done on the Forge in the last little while. I ended up scrapping my last shell as I realized that I was gonna be getting pretty small once I added my kiln shelf in. So I used a 20lb propane bottle  this time and changed my design slightly. I have used 2 1” layers of kaolwool and added A 1/2 inch of Kastolite 30 with maybe 1” in the floor. I’m powering it with one Frosty T burner that I will be tuning once I’ve oven fired the forge to get the rest of the moisture out. 
 

a couple of questions should I apply the ITC 100 before or after putting it in the  oven?

also I am planning on not making doors and using fire bricks to block my openings. Will hard fire bricks be sufficient or is there something else I should look for

[Mikey98118]

a couple of questions should I apply the ITC 100 before or after putting it in the  oven? After. You do know that you can just heat it up with the burner, right?

also I am planning on not making doors and using fire bricks to block my openings. Will hard fire bricks be sufficient or is there something else I should look for? The main thing is to remember to use the ITC-100 on the side of the bricks facing into the inside of the forge.

[LonelyIsle]

Thanks for the quick response and the ITC tips

 

I am aware I could use the burner but was wary of cracking it by heating it up to quick. The instructions that came with it recommended a slow oven cure so that was my first thought. It’s already sat air drying for a few days since removing from the 100% moisture I had it in. 
 

 

[Mikey98118]

If you're using Kast-O-lite refractory, the main reason for slow heat buildup is slow steam production while firing the cast refractory layer. A small hole in the steel shell (bottom center) takes care of that. Also, how fast the forge heats up can be controlled by how high you turn the gas up on its burner. If you're using some other refractory, all bets are off.

[LonelyIsle]

It is Kast-o-Lite 30 Mikey, I am going to be drilling the hole in the bottom then to save myself a step. Should I still hold off on the ITC until I’ve heated it up a little? 
 

Not firing in the oven gave me a chance to get my welding done and shell painted. The forge has a pipe in the bottom that slides into the stand. Tomorrow I am hoping to plumb up the burner and tune it. Still waiting on fire bricks for doors and a piece of kiln shelf but getting closer every day
 

Maybe if I’m lucky I will have some hot metal to hit soon.

[LonelyIsle]

So I got the welding done and fitting everything up now I just gotta finish tuning the burner. Only problem is I live on a small island I’m missin the fitting from the ball valve to to the flare fitting. Just one more trip to town…

[Mikey98118]

Have you tried running it in the forge without the flare?

[LonelyIsle]

Yes I did when I was mocking it up. I need to finish tuning it but didn’t realize I was 1 piece short until I went to hook it up with the copper. 
 

I’m just missing the Flare fitting so I can hook the ball valve to my copper. I shaped my Kastolite into my Burner Flare.

Here is a vid of one of the test runs. At the time there was a little obstruction in the hole for the burner/flare but I believe I’ve fixed that part of it. I do believe it may need to be tuned a little better though still.

[Frosty]

Put the ball valve on the regulator!

There is no good reason to put the shut off valve ON the burner and there are a number of GOOD REASONS NOT TO!.

First you don't want your hand that close to the fire, especially when lighting unless you don't like hair on your hand.

Second, every single time you open or close the valve you run a serious risk of bumping the jet out of alignment with the mixing tube. The gas jet being aligned straight down the center of the mixing tube is the single most critical factor to getting a NA gas burner to work properly.

Finding a fitting to make up directly from the mig tip mount fitting to a 1/4 turn ball valve is a specialty fitting IF you can find one. Making up from the jet mount fitting to copper line is a single short fitting, EZ PZ, I've even found those in Big Box stores.

1/4 turn ball valves usually come in tapered pipe and will connect directly with the propane hose without extra fittings. Mine are all 3/8" tapered pipe threads, valves, hose, regulator and gage. There are lots of size choices for valves just get the right one and 3/8" tapered pipe, male or female or combo is one of the most common.

Flammable gas of any kind is potentially very dangerous so handling it has been standardized by law to minimize the chances of tragic mistakes.

Put your valve directly on the regulator and your problems will go away, you'll need one adapter from the hose to the copper tubing and one on the burner itself.

Frosty The Lucky.

[LonelyIsle]

I don’t think I explained myself very well. Sorry for the confusion, I only had the ball valve on the burner during my test before I welded the stand together. You’ve explained to me the error of having too much junk on the burner somewhere earlier in this thread when I almost did just that lol.
 

The ball valve is now mounted on the stand where the copper and rubber meet. What I need is the 3/8 male/male fitting from the flared end of my copper pipe to my ball valve. 

[Frosty]

The picture you posted has the valve on the burner. Put the valve on the regulator and remove an adaptor from the circuit. If your valve is male female a 3/8" close nipple will convert it to male male. A 3/8" female to male flare fitting doubles your chances of finding one locally.

I'm pretty sure I laid out the easiest simplest way to make your gas circuit in my last post, even if you NOW reveal the information you provided isn't current. 

You  have no idea how hard it is to help people who don't show or tell you what they have and then want to argue about it. That's okay, I've made my suggestion, use them or not as you wish, it's no skin off my nose. 

I don't know how to break it to you but if having to go to town to buy a fitting is insurmountable then blacksmithing is going to be one long string of disappointments. If you're just in a hurry. . . <shrug>

Frosty The Lucky.

[LonelyIsle]

I honestly do appreciate all the advice I've gotten from everyone on this site, especially the burner help Frosty.  I apologize if I am coming across as argumentative or difficult but was just trying to explain what I was trying to say in my first post. 

You cannot see it in the picture but there is a ball valve on the back side of the piece of metal that is coming off the side of my stand(Where the rubber and copper meet). I only have one valve in the circuit and it goes Tank--Regulator--Rubber--Valve--Copper--Burner.   There is something in the background that makes it appear like there is a valve on the burner but there is not.

In the video I posted (which I'm not sure if it worked) I have the ball valve attached to the Burner but I was only doing that for a test.

Thank you again for all the advice, I value the suggestions you have made I just didn't think I had relayed my information properly. I think I see what your saying about moving the valve back in the circuit but it is female female on the valve I just don't see How I can do it other than removing the ball valve from the circuit and going directly from rubber to copper. (Which come to think of it would probably work until I get my other piece)

I live on a small Island and try to plan town trips once ever week or two, so as badly as I want to get it working this weekend I need to wait until sometime next week because I cannot justify the price of taking the ferry and going to town when I have to go on Tuesday anyways. I'm just annoyed with myself for forgetting something so small.

Edited October 23, 2021 by LonelyIsle

[Frosty]

No, any apology should be from my side. Sometimes things annoy me that shouldn't. Might have been my blood sugar, a dry achy eye or I might have watched the news. Any of them can make me snappish. 

A couple 3/8" close nipples will adapt the valve so get a couple extras. I always buy an extra or two so I have one to lose or break and still have a margin. That'd be any not to expensive component. If I got silly or needed to I could walk out to the shop and put two 3/4" T burners together from the spares box. The only thing lacking would be a regulator. 

I've been picking up an extra when buying components since I went shopping with Dad. Then again we're a family of packrats so large stockpiles of . . . stuff is a family tradition.

DARN, I think I was seeing something on the wall behind your burner. Boy talk about mistaken! My bad, please feel free to throw stinky cyber socks at me or whack me with a rubber chicken. I deserve it.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

[LonelyIsle]

No worries, probably would have cleared the confusion if I’d have taken a photo of the front of the forge  

ill be buying extra fittings once I finally get to town. 
Since the video didn’t work here are a couple stills to show the flame I had when I was testing.  
 

There was a slight obstruction to the flare that I’ve since fixed but I feel it may need to be tuned still. 

[Frosty]

I should've paid better attention, the reality of the pic was right in front of my face and I missed it. 

Obstruction to what flare? The one on the copper tubing or the burner nozzle? 

I'm assuming it's the burner nozzle as the flame is really distorted. The way the burner is angled in the mount the flame could be hitting the forge liner. Maybe try raising the rear of the burner a little and see it that helps.

However, if there's crud in the burner flare . . . Hmmm?

How about a pic straight through the air intakes on the burner. So far all the pics look like the mig tip is at an angle and that will mess things up.

Frosty The Lucky.