Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 What we are trying to say is unless you have an unlimited supply of fuel multi tuyere setups will consume much more charcoal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Also: do you expect to only use *1* forge for the rest of your life? Shoot the fire pot in my solid fuel forge is in it's 4th forge now and it's only about 30 years old! Think of it like buying your first car---do you expect that it will be the only car you own for the rest of your life? Or as your life changes you may change the type of car you drive to suit it? I've owned a beater car, an old phone company van I used to camp it when working in the oil patch, minivan when we had kids, and my last bunch has been a van for my wife and pickups for me. So too forges---you may want a hot rod billet welding forge, a 15 person van for doing large work , a 2 door for doing smaller faster jobs, etc. Building a "dump truck" when you 95% of the time need a small commuter car doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Another thing from me and I'll let you be until the subject changes some. It is MUCH easier to build a large fire in a small forge than it is to build a small fire in a large forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Awesome, thanks guys. These are the things I was hoping to learn from this thread. I am taking all into consideration. I think my next step is to build a box bellows, and a stand for the forge body. I want to be ready to start a fire when I fill it and build the fire pit. Ill keep you guys updated as it comes together. I am out of town for part of this week but hopefully I can get to it when I'm back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Well, took a step back from the hot side of this build to work on the cold side. Started to build my box bellows today, i was unable to finish it out before I had other engagements to handle. Im sure most all of you are familiar with the design and build process, but here is the build so far... its a 3'×4'×1'box, with a 30"×6"×11.5"inner chamber. I should be able to get back over to the shop at some point in the next few days to finish it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Sorry the inner chamber is really 40"×12"×6" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 That's 2,880 cid. What you going to call it? I vote for "Deep Breath," or, "Breath Deep." I must really be in a tinkery mood. Looking at your pics made me think a box bellows should work vertically. A lever to lift the plunger or box, either one and let gravity push the blast. That got me to making a box in my head, naw too much work. Sono tube! Smooth cylinders of cardboard. cap one end and make a piston, a couple valves and it's a bellows. Mount the piston on a dowel a little longer than the inside length of the sonotube "barrel" and put it on a foot. The piston can be a plywood disk with a few wraps of yarn for "rings". A flap valve in the piston for make up air. The blast outlet in the cap on the barrel gets a ping pong ball check valve. The bottom of the barrel gets weighted so the barrel stays vertical and the weight provides blast strength. A: pully, line and handle completes the bellows. Pull the handle down lifts the barrel, the ping pong ball check valve blocks the tuyere, and fills it with air. Release the handle and the barrel sinks forcing air through the duct to the tuyere. It's literally identical to a box bellows except it's cylindrical and vertical with gravity the main power source. Man, sketching a modular bench really has the tinker side of my brain rolling. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 MG what are you covering the bottom board with to decrease friction in use? (slick Formica is often used.) Particle board is especially bad wrt friction and you hope to be pumping it tens of thousands of times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Hey Frosty, i like the idea. I was considering how to build a gravity powered bellows, but decided to go with a proven design this time around. And as Thomas was saying that this likely won't be my last or only forge, this won't likely be my last or only bellows, so i will likely be trying to make a gravity powered bellows in the future. Thomas, I hadnt considered that the particleboard would be considered high friction, ill try sourcing a "bearing" material to line the inner walls and floor with. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Should be covered in some build information. I remember it from when they were popular back a couple of decades ago. Unfortunately most web info targets most recent over best. I remember Ric Furrer built a largish one he used at Quad-State the year he did the "3 ways to make steel" demo. Especially as I was pumping it for the oroshigane demo part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I wonder if just using some clear contact paper, used for shelving liner would be enough to break surface tension.... its nice and smooth and would not effect my fitment at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've used the thin cheap UHMW plastic cutting boards for bearing material. You see them in the kitchen gadget section of Fredy's or Wally World. I could be wrong but I think clear contact paper would be pretty fragile. I've heard of guys sanding the rails smooth and keeping them well waxed. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Yeah I was wondeeing about that too. That would be much more durable than the contact film. And I could just use some super 77 to stick the pieces. Ill look for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 How does particle board react to the ambient humidity in your area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I think as long as I don't let it get soaked in the rain it should be fine. It definitely has a little play. But I may have issues with the piston rod hanging up in the bearing hole. Ill have to take that into consideration. And may be up for a change in materials down the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 12 hours ago, Frosty said: Looking at your pics made me think a box bellows should work vertically. I have been similarly inspired by the Alldays and Onions round bellows. I have been thinking about trying it out once I come across a 55 gallon drum without dents in the side that would bind the piston. I have been too time constrained to put even marginal effort into sourcing one, however. Sonotube just may be the solution to my materials availability (I. e., time-to-source) problem! I think mocking it up with a bean can may help in sizing the moving bits and placing holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Some foodstuffs are shipped in perfectly smooth 55 gallon drums to allow them to be extruded using a large piston. Tomato Paste was one type I have used. A plus is the low toxicity of the previous content! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Thanks for letting me know such a thing exists so I can keep my eyes open for them, Thomas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Also used for a lot of manufacturing materials that come as gels or sludges and are applied with a gun---however a lot of them are quite toxic and I try to avoid toxic residues when possible. (Used to buy my "regular" barrels from a place that cleaned them out including a burn out step.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Ok so I got the bellows built. Still going to do some cutting on the forge body, before I set up the firepit. Wood stand is just a temp, for mock up purposes. I will be welding one when loaner welder gets here. And the anvil does not live or work where it stands. I still have some sorting out of layout of the space to do before I commit to placement of my components. Now back to the bellows, I know this is a thread in the JABOD board, but without bellows I would just have a barbecue. So... i linked the interior with smooth plastic wall panel and the piston moves pretty fluidly, and the box is pretty well sealed, using wood glue and scraps of leather to seal any air gaps.... but i feel like I am getting gray too much backpressure causing lots of resistance while pumping. And I'm not getting g what seems like enough air pressure out of the exhaust port. Im wonderingif maybe my exit is too small of diameter. The air inlets and the inner chamber valves are 1.5"dia. And so is the single exit port.... I will post in the bellows board when I get a chance, but I thought I would update the process here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 so i built my bellows this week.... everything moves well and is sealed well. But the back pressure is gnarly to push against. I'm wondering if my outlet is too small or my secondary chamber is too small or if the inlets to my secondary chamber are too small. If anybody has good experience with these or even a Japanese style box. Please feel free to chime in. The box is 48"×36"×12 Inner chamber is 36"×11.5"×6" All valves are 1.5"dia. Here are some pics of the build sorry I missed photos of a few steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Make the intake ports much larger. No reason to make it harder to fill with air than necessary. Is the blast stroke hard even without the air ducting connected? If it is make the blast port larger, you can restrict it to whatever you like for the tuyere at the tuyere. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Without a lid I could go all day and night. That makes perfect sense thanks Frosty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 If you are loosing air at the piston rod, cut a square of tire inter tube and add a hole in the center for the rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.G. Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Glen, yeah losing a little around the rod, I was thinking of making a gasket from scrap leather. But its not too bad. I'll keep it in mind, ive got some old tunes laying around somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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