Is this a fuller?

[streetcore]

Blacksmith's tool or vampire killer? Picked this up today with a bunch of chisels and punches. I thought it might be a fullering tool for the hardy hole, and it kind of fits, but I've never seen one like it and don't know why it would be so tall and so pointy. The "cross" is also welded at the bottom and the welds prevent it from sitting flat on the anvil. So a lot of things about this tool don't make sense as a fuller, but I'm a total noob and don't much about this stuff. Any thoughts? Could it have been made for some other purpose? There's a strip of hardened steel in the top edge. 

Thanks.

[Dogsoldat]

scythe sharpening stake maybe?  drive it into anything convenient next to the field.  Interesting at any rate

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

My thoughts at first but then thinking, a large saw sharpening stump anvil due to the narrow welded in steel bit. For the large 2 man saws.

[Frosty]

Whatever it was it is NOT FOR THE HARDY HOLE!!! Even a modest tap will wedge it in the hardy hole tight as a tick, might even break the anvil at the hardy hole. Whatever it is/was it was a stake tool, drive it in the ground or a block of wood. 

Looking at the die I'm almost tempted to call it some kind of creaser for sheet metal work. Say shrinking and turning a rim on a sheet metal disk. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

That's a long way to drive it in to reach the crosspiece! I think it's definitely a "bespoke" "special need" item; now what can we dream up to use it for? (Besides an improvised dental work tool for Thomas.)

[streetcore]

18 hours ago, Dogsoldat said:

scythe sharpening stake maybe?  drive it into anything convenient next to the field.  Interesting at any rate

And we have a winner! After a bit of searching it does appear to be what's called a "field peening anvil" for scythe sharpening. 

Below is a pic of one in use and a couple other examples I found. So now as Thomas suggested "can we dream up to use it for"? I had a quick look on eBay and I don't think it has much value, maybe $20, so could it be modified to be something useful for a beginner blacksmith like myself, or should I try and find a scythe owner who would appreciate having it?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The stump scythe peening anvils don't have such a narrow face though. Never have seen one with a narrow hardened bit welded in.

[streetcore]

I just found commercial link removed and they sell wide and narrow peening anvils. "The Wide Anvil is used with a cross peen hammer with the blade held concave side up. The Narrow Anvil is used with a flat hammer with the blade concave side down." You're right about the hardened steel bit not being common, but the one I found is obviously homemade. So could have been someone's experiment, but I'm guessing.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Yes I'm aware of both styles and their use. I have both of them and the narrow one has a 3/4 inch wide face, which is at least twice as wide as your picture.

[streetcore]

Doesn't sound like it would be useful as a scythe sharpener either. I guess that brings me back to the previous question, could it be modified to be something useful for blacksmithing? The upper portion does look a bit like some of the bottom fullers I've seen online. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

It probably could be sharpened and made into a hot cut hardy.

[streetcore]

Please forgive my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff, but if I cut the stake to fit the hardy why wouldn't it work as a bottom fuller?

[JHCC]

^^^ Looking for a fuller explanation.

[Glenn]

Add more words to make the explanation fuller.

[JHCC]

The laborer is worth his swages.

[ThomasPowers]

That of course would depend on how you want to fuller things. For my use I want a smooth curve and generally it's fairly broad to avoid making cold shuts in my work.  I don't need a hardened tip, that is more for hot cuts, hardies and butchers. 

Cutting that down to use in a hardy hole would involve getting rid of the taper so you don't have a wedging action---I already own a heeless anvil, I don't need or want another!

John; Won't those swages result in depth?

[JHCC]

Only if they are chief among sinters.

[ThomasPowers]

It's the "Hot Isostatic Pressing" that gets them in trouble!

[JHCC]

I'm HIP to that.

[streetcore]

On 4/24/2020 at 10:02 AM, ThomasPowers said:

That of course would depend on how you want to fuller things. For my use I want a smooth curve and generally it's fairly broad to avoid making cold shuts in my work.  I don't need a hardened tip, that is more for hot cuts, hardies and butchers. 

Cutting that down to use in a hardy hole would involve getting rid of the taper so you don't have a wedging action---I already own a heeless anvil, I don't need or want another!

John; Won't those swages result in depth?

Some of you guys are having too much pun here... Thanks for staying on topic Thomas 

I get what you're saying about the fuller now and will give it some thought. I'm just getting started with this stuff and have been practicing drawing out steel for tongs and things. The edges or my anvil are pretty round, so I thought this might make a more effective fuller for drawing out.  

If I cut it down I will make sure it doesn't wedge the hardy. My anvil has some cracks and delamination already,  so I definitely don't want to break the heel off!

Cheers and thanks again for all the input. I have a much fuller understanding now 

 

[Frosty]

Don't cut that stake anvil down! Just pick up some round steel and bend a hair pin that'll fit diagonally in your hardy hole and stick out the bottom a little way. Then bend it so it lays flat on the face and reaches the edge of your anvil then bend it so it follows the edge JUST inside to the anvil's heart. AKA Sweet Spot, directly over the center of the foot. 

This will give you an effective fuller that can be addressed either across the face or from a vertical angle off the side of your anvil. It endangers NOTHING, even if it jams in the hardy hole you can tap it out from underneath. Yes? When you make the next fuller, you can extend the unused end from the hair pin bend and extend it up and over the bottom die of the fuller for a spring fuller. It's more difficult to make the extra turn to run flush with the edge when making a spring fuller though. Keep your first spring fullers to the center of the anvil face and save headaches till your skills are reach fuller development. No rush will get you THERE, faster.

Once you get some practice making this type bottom tool you can extend the hair pin bend farther below the anvil so you can drive in a wedge and make a very tight bottom tool. Only SOME bottom tools need to be securely affixed to the anvil so don't do all of them as wedged tools. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[streetcore]

On 4/25/2020 at 1:44 PM, Frosty said:

Don't cut that stake anvil down! Just pick up some round steel and bend a hair pin that'll fit diagonally in your hardy hole and stick out the bottom a little way. Then bend it so it lays flat on the face and reaches the edge of your anvil then bend it so it follows the edge JUST inside to the anvil's heart. AKA Sweet Spot, directly over the center of the foot.

Thanks for the suggestion. Does my chalk line in the attached pic look about right? Unfortunately, a lot of the damage on my anvil is over the sweet spot. So I've been doing most of my hammering in front or behind the damaged area.

[Frosty]

Looks pretty good, maybe a little closer. It's not a science what works well for me might not for you. If it doesn't just heat it up and tweak it to your liking. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[streetcore]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:00 PM, Frosty said:

Looks pretty good, maybe a little closer. It's not a science what works well for me might not for you. If it doesn't just heat it up and tweak it to your liking. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks! I'll give it shot.

 

[Frosty]

You're welcome, it's my pleasure. Let us know how it works for you.

Frosty The Lucky.