Improvised Anvil

[Daniel95]

I have been just starting in smithing. One of my instructors is a blacksmith, and he welded this thing up and dropped it off. There is a few things wrong with it (mostly my fault) so I thought I would get some advice before doing something stupid I would regret.

It is roughly 50lbs (estimate, bottom part is 25#). The bottom is made from mild steel I believe, and top is from hardened steel (I believe).

These are the problems:

1. The edges are very sharp, on most anvils I have seen the edges are rounded. Should I grind the edges down?

2. As you can see it is pretty rusty from the elements (I need to keep it covered with something). How should I fix that?

3. When I first started using this anvil is was way too low, so I dented up the surface. On a normal anvil you aren't supposed to grind the face I believe, but what about on this thing?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I plan on buying a London style anvil eventually, but a.) I don't have the money and b.) I don't know where to find one in my area. For now this aso will have to do. Pics below->

 

[Frosty]

Make a taller stand for it, Easy Peasy. You know how to judge the correct height for YOU right? 

I'd radius the edges at different radii and leave one sharp for a couple inches. 

Rust means nothing, hot steel and a hammer will take care of that. You can pein the dents out of the face, just work around the dent's edges with a smooth faced hammer and the raised rims will be forged back down. It'll be good practice for striking with the hammer and anvil faces parallel in 2 dimensions. You don't need a heavy hammer 16 oz max,. The dents won't work out in a couple blows, lots of semi light blows will do the trick.

If you can find one a piece of plate like that mounted on it end will make a much more effective anvil for the depth of rebound. The more steel directly under the hammer the more effectively it'll move hot steel. Don't change that one other than the stand and dressing the edges, it's a generous gift, you want to stay on your friend's good side. Just don't stop looking, NEVER stop looking.  

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daniel95]

That was the analysis I needed. Thanks Frosty. I have 2 quick questions if you dont mind. First off, with the current stand I have, the anvil face lies flush with my wrists. Is that good? And second, this is kind of embarrassing, but what does "radius the edges" mean? Thanks again for all yout help.

[Stash]

Hey Daniel- there is a sticky for finding proper anvil height, I tend to have it roughly knuckle height, I have one anvil a bit higher for more detailed stuff. Experiment a bit- adjust the height with wood and work it for a while, to see what works for you. 'Radius the edges' simply means to round them over. Get a piece of 1/2"round stock- that will have a radius of 1/4" Use different stock sizes to give yourself a hands- on visual reference. Like Frosty said. make each edge a different radius, and leave some of an edge sharp. You can do the radiusing with a grinder and a flap disc, or do it old- skool with a file.

Steve

Anvil height, how can you tell if it is the right height

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Radius the edges means to grind a rounded bevel in them. I would start with about a 1/8 in radius for several inches then a 1/4 inch for the next few. Sharp edges create cold shuts but one will come in handy for marking & cutting stock. To check the height take a piece of soft wood board and hit it using your stance like hammering hot steel. If the hammer mark matches the face of the hammer it is at the right height. If there is a crescent mark away from you it's too low, a crescent mark the opposite way it's too high. There is a post dealing with that, may be in the sticky Stash mentioned.

[Daniel95]

Thanks!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

BTW, if the rust bothers you, wire brush it off and put a coating of BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil)  on it but hammering hot steel on the face will keep it shiny.

[ThomasPowers]

Check that your hammer face is dressed correctly too. All I've seen for sale the past decade or two have NOT been dressed correctly for smithing.

[Daniel95]

 Oops Thomas... I use a 2lb cross pein hammer from Menards, probably not dressed well. Should I try to dress it up, or buy an actual smithing hammer? Probably should clean the dirt off of it too.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Oh ya sharp edges, just dress em up.

 

[Daniel95]

Sorry to ask, but how? Is it in the hand tools section?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Yep... here is a link to one. some of the pictures were lost but page 2 shows pretty well.

 

[Daniel95]

I read thru it. Do I want my hammer face to be roundish or flat? If you had a pic of a good blacksmith hammer I could just look and copy. I suppose there isnt a do it all hammer, but what I make are little things like hooks and leaves, and eventually knives. Thanks so much, and if my many questions are bothersome, feel free to let me know. God Bless

[ThomasPowers]

The center of the face can be flat with the edges smoothly rounded, or the entire face can have a gentle "rocker" curve---see what works best for you and DOESN'T leave gouges in your work or anvil face.  It's even possible to have one face "flattish" and the other face "rocker" and use the one that's best for the task at hand.  (My first hammer started rocker; but after nearly 40 years of use the face has worn flat!)

In blacksmithing we make and modify tools all the time to get what works best for *us*.  There is no "one best style"!  (In fact hammer fads come around on a fairly regular basis;  lots of us remember the Swedish Crosspein fad, and of course the handmade heavily fullered "domed face" hammers seem to be the current fad. When I teach new students I try to bring at least twice as many hammers as there are students and in a wide variety of size and shapes and tell folks to try them until they find one that fits their hammering style.  I've had one of my long term students even duplicate a french crosspeen that was his favorite of my hammers.  I've got a number of Lynch Collection hammers, old european styles that I like and would be very hard to find or afford these days...but I also still use the double faced single jack I bought for a buck or two 40 years ago...)

[Daniel95]

Ok, so it ambigous. Thank for the feedback. I am starting to learn that in blacksmithing, there are certain things in which there are no-no's, but lots of things seem to be up to the blacksmith to decide. Thanks so much. I now know what to do to build a forge, dress my hammer, and fix up my anvil. I should be about set. God Bless!

[ThomasPowers]

Think of blacksmithing as having wide latitude for personal style and preferences; however we expect folks to modify their environment, like dressing their hammers and working their hammer handles to shapes/styles that are best for them.  I tell every class, (one was supposed to be last Saturday at the Uni), that they generally are not buying the BEST design when they get a commercial product; merely the one manufacturers think they can make the cheapest and sell the most of.

So a commercial hammer handle may not fit your hand and can even lead to "Blacksmith's Elbow", (lateral epicondylitis); where a few minutes with a rasp and sand paper can make the hammer sing in your swing and leave your RSI in the coal dust!

This is one reason it's hard to learn smithing from books and videos; it helps to have someone tell you "try this hammer and you are hitting at an angle instead of flat..." It also helps to have an instructor willing to admit there is more than one way to do things and what may be the right way for one person might be the wrong way for another.  When I was just getting into pattern welding I had one professional knifemaker friend tell me to "always forge the billet out at nearly welding heat to keep the welds from failing", I had another professional knifemaker friend tell me to "always forge the billet out at the low end of forging heat to keep the welds from failing".  They were both making gorgeous knives that sold for way more Benjamins  than I ever saw back then with diametrically opposite advice. (I tend to forge them hot as it's faster and easier!)

[Daniel95]

That was great advice. I probably will remeber that sentiment for the rest of my life. Thanks for all your help! 

[caotropheus]

These are just some examples on how to dress and fit your hammer to your personal preferences but there are many more videos.

 

 

[Daniel95]

Thanks Coatropheus! That will help!

[Glenn]

Many of the anvil height suggestions were made from a time when blacksmiths had helpers, strikers, and used thicker materials. 

Anvil height, how can you tell if it is the right height 

[Daniel95]

Thanks Glenn! That was some good info.

Ill test it out tommorow.

[Glenn]

When dressing the hammer face, use modeling clay or mud to test hammer face to see how the dressing is progressing.  Going slow is an advantage here.

Once you have the anvil height correct,  and have the hammer face dressed properly, turn your attention to the size (radius) of the hammer peen.   

[Daniel95]

Ok. This is a beginner problem, but what exactly do I use the cross peen for? 

[Glenn]

Hammer face and peen is for moving metal.

As they say, pack a lunch and a cold drink, and do a little reading.  The things you can learn by reading IForgeIron. (grin)

Hammer Dressing and Cow Pies

Hand Dressing a Hammer Head

 

You are not expected to know what questions to ask, or where the answers are located.  That is what help from the membership is for.  Your doing fine, just read the material suggested, take it to the forge and try it out, then come back and tell us what you did, what happened, and ask more specific questions so you can get more specific answers to your questions.   

[Daniel95]

Ok, thanks for your patientce. Ill be back tommorow.