Cowboy Rich Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 A few weeks ago I got a buffalo forge with hand crank blower, from member Kozzy, and it will fit my needs perfectly except I cant seem to get the shaft the crank goes on freed up, everything else moves.(Yes i took it apart). So I started with saturating shaft with PB blaster, for days not helping, then I went to another penetrating oil called knocker loose these have been 3-4 days at a time. So Saturday I put it in ATF, still no movement, so it's currently as of this afternoon sitting in diesel. Which is where the thread I was reading stopped, now the long winded question..... what next if after a few days? Week? This doesn't do it? I am not wanting to put a torch to it, it's to nice for that. TIA Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Kero and ATF are the best penetrating fluids besides the one you can buy like PB blaster. I would also give the shaft light taps along the shaft to crack the rust. Have you seen it spinning before this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Does it move at all? You have it open, good. Are the gears free? Have you turned upside down and banged it with a MALLET(!!) to knock any pebbles or chips loose? If you can't turn the gears there's a good chance something is caught in meshing cogs, often all it needs to escape is a little gravity reversal and vibration. If the inside is cruddy at all, a degreasing and trip to the car wash for power washing does wonders and can't hurt a thing. Remember your PPE, at least WEAR EYE PROTECTION! There is NO telling what's gong to get blasted out of the gear box, even paint chips with 20,000 psi. behind them can do real damage! Scoop/scrape out the congealed oil, use a good degreaser, preferable not the smelly kind, the guys at the car wash don't like folk degreasing and leaving a mess, ghost it. I usually degrease before loading it in the truck to take it to the power wash. I use the hot soapy selection and blast the . . . heck out of it. Taking a torch to it won't damage it if you don't get silly. All you want to do is warm up a small area couple hundred degrees warmer than ambient and do it quickly. If you warm it too slowly it'll warm the shaft as well and expansion won't break whatever's seizing it. Once it's warm BUMP the handle back and forth, NOT hard, just bump it to break the crud loose while the two surfaces, housing and shaft, are pulled away from each other. Do NOT try to force it to turn! You just want to rattle the seizing crud, it's brittle, regardless of what has oxidized and bumping it will break it up. Make sense? After bumping it maybe a dozen times, don't get carried away, use the penetrant on it. Being warm and opened up a little and the crud hopefully cracked the penetrant has wider gaps to penetrate and as the housing cools it'll draw a little vacuum and enhance capillarity drawing the penetrant in. Let it work for a while, over night is good but an hour or two at least and bump it. Lather rinse repeat. You'll get flames when you heat it again, don't get excited do it outdoors and have some borax ready in case something catches. Heat, bump, lube, rest, bump. Repeat till it's moving. Don't get in a hurry, even when it's turning some; if it stops, repeat the process. Your patience WILL be rewarded. These old hand crank blowers were made tough but you CAN damage them by forcing them and most of the time you don't need to take them apart more than maybe opening the case to degrease and power wash. I've had good luck squirting the innards through the intake and exhaust with a garden hose and bumping the handle. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I like trying to turn the vanes by hand---GENTLY! Rocking them back and forth with the penetrating oil applied. I recently bought a Little Giant that has been laying outside for several decades, It's now standing in my shop and I try to give it a shot of penetrating oil every time I go out there. May be weeks before I get to strip it down and I expect the day/night heat cycle will help the oil to penetrate. NOT being in a hurry can do wonders and has far fewer "Oops now I gotta repair/replace that too." moments. Wish I had learned this when I was young... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 19 hours ago, Cowboy Rich said: (Yes i took it apart). How far apart did this entail? Pictures will help with advice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 It was frozen but not in terrible shape---I figured it would come apart reasonably easily with the usual soaking etc. It's a stamped sheet metal buffalo that was sold to Cowboy Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 One of the best penetrating oils I have found is a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. Every bit as good as Kroil IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Thanks for the help folks. This is how far apart it is the main gears shaft is the only thing seized up everything else spins freely. It was sitting in diesel but found out when I got home my coffee can apparently has a small hole in it so no progress today. I have tried bumping it back and forth but it's not having it just yet. So tomorrow I will get a different container and some more diesel along with PB blaster then see what happens I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Not applying heat is me being stubborn, I will if need be. Kozzy, dont take this post the wrong way I am very happy with the forge and just trying to take baby steps to free it up, I am a horrible combination sometimes stubborn as all get out and then while I'm busy with stubborn I get impatient. I've been steering clear of the impatient because I dont want to hurt anything. Oh forgot the inside was free of anything but wasps nest. Thanks again everyone Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Try the mix I suggested, 10 times better than diesel & PB Blaster. I've been there & done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Acetone and ATF ... now that has to work. Thinning out one of the best detergent oils has to be a winner. I have freed up rusted solid bearings by submerging them in kero for weeks. The acetone/ATF would be great for tight spaces like a bush. Best of luck and be patient, No blowtorch ... yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 I'd never had thought about a 50 50 of acetone and atf I'll have to check my supply. Marc1 the stubborn in me says NO TORCH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 acetone and atf is great. works far better than any commercial product,, and cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Well its currently in the 50/50 mix in a new sealed container, I'll see what happens over the next 24 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I would try tapping the shaft back & forth with a wood mallet (not too hard) and rocking the gear back & forth, it should let loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 It's only been in for about 1/2 hour so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1/2 hour and two minutes ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Haha you would be correct my friend!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Says the cowboy keeping the 3 kg mallet at hand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Lol. While I know where my hammer is, I'm resisting, trying to let this combo work its magic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 kg---oh the small one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuEulear Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Heat can be relitive you can skip the torch and just throw it in the temper oven at 350 for a cycle or two oil after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 Well, I dont have a temper oven, as I'm just starting out and dont know yet how that process works. I've got an oven in the house but seems that would heat to evenly? And the wife gets about as upset when I use HER tools as i do when she uses mine, that being said she is out of town right now! Thanks for the tip but dont know I'm equipped for, since i dont know the process that would be involved. I'm getting ready to go try working it again, no results yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 If you get nowhere with it, let me know. There might be some things we can do to help in my shop if you are ever back through town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rich Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 Its apart!! Yeah! Thanks kozzy but working on getting it back together now, IM HAPPY! it wasn't a big deal just took longer than I thought it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Looks like the 50/50 mix penetrating oil worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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