Junkyard anvil/swage block

[5S forge (Clint)]

Hello guys, 

This is my first time posting although I spend roughly 15-20 hrs per week browsing the forum because my job is equipment maintenance in a automotive factory.  So i can sit in my area and browse around the web while equipment is running good. 

First off , Thank you to the people that spend so much time posting projects and information  and most importantly guidance to people of all levels of knowledge so that they may be more proficient at whatever it is that there heart desires.

A little background on me , I have been a knife maker for almost 20 years now,   mostly stock removal but after completing horse shoeing school back in 2005  on occasion  I would hammer a few things out on my NC big face 78# farriers anvil but not many big projects.

After building a new ribbon burner forge to replace my old inefficient NA 2 burner ,  I found that I was really enjoying the  time  i was spending doing general blacksmith work . maybe being simply burnt out on making knives from stock removal has played  a significant roll in my sudden interest in being more proficient in the blacksmith area . Making  damascus/pattern welded steel , hammers and drifts etc. on my little anvil presents its challenges.

So now to the meat and potatoes of my post....

The sudden spike of interest of the general public wanting to do what they are watching on a certain Forging show every week The price of anvils are going for 10 times what they are worth I have decided to build a Anvil/swage block to aid in some of my future projects which include ornamental things like Hooks, Bottle openers , hammers , drifts, punches, hatchets , and of coarse knives.

I am a certified welder as well as pretty proficient on a mill and lathe.

The material I have on hand that i'm thinking about using for this project are as follows.

2 Fork lift tines  with solid 2" round stock on them.

6 weld on wear plates for track loader  (assuming AR plate )  4" wide X 1/2 thick X 20" long 

2 pieces of 1/4" thick AR400 plate aprox 18" X 20"

6 pieces of heat treated (56 RC ) S7 shear blades  that are 3/4 thick 8"  wide and I think 22" long

Also have plenty of mild steel available for frame work of fill in material , swage shapes etc.

What are your suggestions on arranging this material to best suit my needs?

I"m guessing that the S7 would be my best bet for anvil face but would like some  input from the group.

I have seen several pictures in the post that looked useful but dont have first hand experience with a anvil/swage combo?

Thanks, Clint

 

 

 

[JHCC]

Welcome to IFI! IF you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!!

Check out Marco Borromei's forklift tine anvil.

[5S forge (Clint)]

Thanks JHCC 

I did read the READ THIS FIRST info Hope I didnt miss anything important that will get me lashes .

The Marco post you metion is actually one of the 7,289 post and pictures that I have looked at that inspired this new project.

Very good info in that one. Thanks for your reply.

Clint

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome aboard... The moderators don't administrate lashes, although at times a mild hammering is in order. Sounds like you have a pretty good resource pile fo what you want to do. The main thing with an improvised anvil is to get as much steel vertically under the hammer. There is an Improvised Anvil Thread for a lot of good ideas. We even use on occasion even though we have 3 London Pattern anvils. 

[ThomasPowers]

He just wanted to beat me to posting Marco's link.  Of course I have to admit to being the Thomas mentioned---I drug the first one out on my own! (Old industrial spoil pile alongside of a river bluff; from back in the good old days when bulldozing your industrial trash into the river was considered OK!)

I like it as forklift tines can be found pretty much anywhere in industrialized countries and they do wear out/get damaged.

[Chris Williams]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:36 PM, 5S forge (Clint) said:

2 Fork lift tines... 

I"m guessing that the S7 would be my best bet for anvil face but would like some  input from the group.

I would be inclined to make a fork lift tine anvil as previously mentioned. I wouldn't bother with trying to add an S7 face to it, although I do admit to being intrigued by an idea Frosty has mentioned a couple/few times about brazing an air hardening steel face to an ASO (i.e., something shaped like an anvil but not suitable for the purpose). I would use what S7 you have for tools or to face something that needed it. 

You asked about making a combination anvil/swage. I think that a forklift tine is excellent for getting mass between your hammer and the ground, but it cannot readily be reconfigured to use multiple sides/faces and still retain that advantage of mass under the hammer; therefore, I wouldn't try to make it a combo.

You can forge or grind swages into pieces of your forklift tines that you don't use for your anvil(s). If you make a hardy hole in your anvil (such as just outside the fork bend) or a portable hardy hole, you can weld hardy shanks to the swages. Alternatively, you can hold your swages in a post vice, fab a stand for them, or cut grooves into a stump to hold them. These last three options allow you to make swages with different shapes on different faces and turn your swage to present the shape that you want when you need it. 

If you are set on making a combination anvil/swage, look up Glen GS Tongs on YouTube. He uses a couple of interesting anvil/swages that may give you some ideas. If you have any large blocks of steel (mild or otherwise), this may be a reasonable path. 

[5S forge (Clint)]

Thanks for your reply Chris. 

I think you are correct about keeping them separate , I have plenty of room in my shop so why not have both.

A friend of mine told me that I could come did through his heavy equipment scrap pile to see if I can find anything useful for making things in my shop, Here are the pictures he sent me.... (i'm probably gonna need the gooseneck)

[CtG]

Fun times.. track rails, sprockets, rollers, tines, ripper-spike, idler fork, etc etc... there should be goodies a plenty to mess with if you have open access.

[Wylsacom]

Hi, I am also new here. Thinking of investing in a welding/forging business is one of the most eco-friendly businesses as I see it. Even though there is a great deal of pollution, at least it doesn't produce waste.

[Frazer]

Welcome aboard! If you add your general location to your profile, you may be surprised how many people live within visiting distance. If you are interested in producing less waste (scraped projects) I would encourage you to find a local blacksmithing group. You learn much faster when you have someone there to teach you the basics. If you are in the US, search ABANA and your general location. 

IFI also has a running list here.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/24-blacksmith-groups-forum/

To get the most out of the site, take a moment to read the information in the "Read This First" tab at the top of every page. 

Good luck!

[Wylsacom]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

[Wylsacom]

Where do you guys get the raw material from? I am thinking about buying from a trash disposal service like link removed would that be a good idea in your opinion? Thought about buying it from a store at first but having done some calculations, I concluded that it would simply ruin my business, given their prices. I don't think there is a vast difference between the quality of recycled metal and the new one, plus, you are eco-friendly, reusing the same material.

[Frazer]

If I had to guess, I would say companies like the one suggested are in the garbage collection business, not the sale of scrap materials. If there is a local scrap yard near you that lets you walk the yard you can usually find many different things there at scrap rates of 20-40 cents per lb. If you're buying car parts, make sure you are getting them as scrap and not as parts since sometimes there is an additional charge if the part is still considered usable.

If you don't have a scrap yard near you, every dealership with a service center or collision repair shop will have a scrap bin where they put all of the used parts before sending them off. Some of these places will let you take a few springs, or shafts or other usable material out of that scrap bin if you kindly ask them and explain what you do and why you're interested in using "recycled" materials. Making the receptionist or the guy behind the counter a bottle opener or some other forged item can sometimes help butter them up and make them more willing to let you take a few things with you. Just remember, they don't have to give you anything and sometimes it's against their policy. It may take a few no's to finally get a yes. I have gotten quite a few springs, etc. for free this way. 

The only thing I'll add is, steel is very cheap at a local steel supply when you buy a full stick. IIRC, last time I stopped there a 20' stick of 1/2" sq. was $15 or $16. There is a benefit to working with a known material and selecting a starting stock size that is appropriate for the project at hand. Burning an excess of fuel trying to work down recycled materials into a usable size isn't a great business model either.

There is nothing wrong with working scrap, I do it often. However, working entirely with scrap can be unnecessarily frustrating. A balance between new and "used" stock seems to give you the best of both worlds.

P.S. Never buy steel at a big box store, their prices are insane. For example, 20' piece at a supplier sometimes costs less than a 4' piece at Home Depot. If you want steel, go to a steel supply. If you want scrap, go to a scrap yard. 

[ThomasPowers]

Where to get materials: I mainly get my materials from a local scrap yard at 20 UScents a pound.  For larger amounts of mild steel I go to a steel dealer about 50 miles away. For specialty steels I will ask around local machine shops about buying drops, source it at Quad-State, or buy it from a specialty steel dealer.  Not knowing what country you are in I can make no specific suggestions for *you*!

If you are doing this as a business you have to factor in materials supply from the start.  You don't want to tell customers that yes you sold them a lefthanded dross dribbler for 2 quantloos last week but now they are 4 quantloos  because you made the first one from free materials you found and now you have to buy it....

[Chris Williams]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:50 AM, ThomasPowers said:

If you are doing this as a business you have to factor in materials supply from the start.  You don't want to tell customers that yes you sold them a lefthanded dross dribbler for 2 quantloos last week but now they are 4 quantloos  because you made the first one from free materials you found and now you have to buy it....

Sell all of the LHDDs for 4Qls from the start. Always consider replacement costs when selling a product.  Of course, for a product, you need to be sure of the material quality and presence/lack of defects before you use scrap or other alternatively-sourced material. 

[ThomasPowers]

When it gets difficult is when the item is predicated on being made from a certain scrapped item.  I've know several smiths who have pretty much wiped out the supply of certain items in their area and looking for weathered scrapped items further afield is more expensive and time consuming.

(BTW, my local scrapyard expects the price of scrap steel they sell to a bigger yard  to drop starting next month and so are working hard to ship as much as they can this month---I'm always happy to have the pile turned over; but would like to have a bit more time between loads going out to see what turns up!)

[Chris Williams]

Yes, sometimes the economics of a product requires specific scrap feedstock. That is just a risk inherent in the product type. 

I'm still on the lookout for a searchable scrap yard near me. There is a promising-looking complex nearby that I've never seen anyone at. It looks almost like a family house and light industry with adjacent large resource pile. 

[ThomasPowers]

Sometimes the design of an item requires specific feed stock.  I have a friend who makes gardening trowels from RR spikes; they are a good seller at his local gardening store.  He buys RR spikes new by the barrel to have a steady supply of high quality ones with no issues attached to their sourcing!