My coal forge attempt

[BillyBones]

Notice it was the daughters, the old lady would have xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and walked it dry. My daughter will come out if her boyfriend comes over while i am in the shop, then she gives him stink eye until he says "I best go now." Which i say "If ya know whats good for you, yeah." 

[Ramsberg]

Hadn't been on this site in years, getting the itch to work with hot metal again, thus have been reading various posts on here to get my brain watering, and I've been bitterly disappointed by the hyper-binary sexism I've seen in thread after thread after thread.

Having an exception here and there for a few women that are smiths, is not true inclusion.

To the point of this thread, it'd be interesting to use a liquor or wine keg, lined with clay/cement on the inside to handle the ashes, as the base for a drum forge. With a metal top made for it to hold the fire.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

57 minutes ago, Ramsberg said:

I've been bitterly disappointed by the hyper-binary sexism I've seen in thread after thread after thread.

Maybe you should report those posts so the moderators can deal with it. Myself I have seen one or two, I would classify like that but no way thread after thread etc.

[Marc1]

Clearly the previous post who refer to hair dryers belonging to daughter or wife, have the potential to offend. From now on we must refrain from using any reference to gender. I suggest that the website be reprogrammed to cancel out any words containing daughter - wife - woman - man - son -  husband  (especially husband)  or any other that has the audacity to refer to such thing as gender. Articles like She or He must be replaced with "It" 

[Ramsberg]

41 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Maybe you should report those posts so the moderators can deal with it. Myself I have seen one or two, I would classify like that but no way thread after thread etc.

I'm less interested in tattling, and more interested in people self reflecting.

21 minutes ago, Marc1 said:

Clearly the previous post who refer to hair dryers belonging to daughter or wife, have the potential to offend. From now on we must refrain from using any reference to gender. I suggest that the website be reprogrammed to cancel out any words containing daughter - wife - woman - man - son -  husband  (especially husband)  or any other that has the audacity to refer to such thing as gender. Articles like She or He must be replaced with "It" 

Yes, sarcasm is fun. What wouldn't be, is being a girl, reading through these threads, and seeing the primary reference to women, as being an obstacle to men being fulfilled by their hobby. It's also a poor message to send to boys, it's mild, but it's pervasive and influential.

When I was in my 20's, I ignored this kind of frame of reference in, not just the blacksmithing circles, but so many of my other hobbies, as being "just how it is". But, I'm 40 now, and I've seen way too many girls and young women be discouraged from joining groups, because they're referenced as "the other", and way too many boys and young men perpetuate that exclusionist mentality.

[ThomasPowers]

I have worried that some of the raillery common to long married couples that has been included here might offend some people.   I don't ascribe it as Hyper Binary sexism; as a person's sex/orientation really has nothing to do with their smithing. 

It's not something I inquire about when I teach and everyone is welcome in my classes! I have friends who are another Steel-Wool couple where She is the smith and He is the spinner; all that does is change who is talking to whom at the dinner table about our crafts. 

I was recently discussing with another instructor that Women made better blacksmithing students in my experience and She shared that she had noticed the same in her craft classes; but added Gays as well. (She had been faculty advisor to the LBGTQ group on campus and so knew orientations where I did not.)

Now Ramsberg; can you provide some specific examples of what made you uncomfortable so we can, perhaps moderate ourselves in the future?  Using the term Spouse or Partner will only work if someone doesn't automatically assume that they are just replacements for "wife".

[BillyBones]

I am purdy smart for an old redneck hillbilly but what in the name of the good Lord above is hyper binary sexism? 

 

[Ramsberg]

TP,

This is all a bit complex, because it's based around nuance and small comments here and there adding up over time, for the reader.

I'll try to elaborate a bit. Way back, I was active on Anvilfire, as in, I posted frequently. A picture of my great grandfather's shop was actually in the gallery that rotated on the homepage. I was also active here, once this place was first created, ah, memories! But, it took me a long time to comprehend, that the majority of the people that used websites like this, didn't actively post on it, at all. They used these places as textbooks, to further their education.

And, to put things into perspective here, we've all read a lot of blacksmithing books, now, imagine reading through one where the author peppers in adversarial or stereotypical anecdotes about how "the wife is the greatest obstacle a smith will encounter"(to be clear, I'm not directly quoting anyone here, just alluding to a common tone), and imagine being a young woman reading that. That's a warning sign that you don't belong there, regardless of how accepting some professional teachers of the craft are.

It is, however, incredibly difficult to separate the tutorial aspect of sites like this, from the socializing group that develops within them.

"I have worried that some of the raillery common to long married couples that has been included here might offend some people."

So, yes, the above in general is what I'm referencing. Basically, I'm asking the question, does the bit of entertainment gleaned from sharing anecdotes like that, outweigh the probable dismissive and/or hurtful capacity that it has?

Re. woman as students of blacksmithing, yes, they're on average superior to men. Due in great part to their knowing that to be accepted as an equal by the average guy in the hobby, they'll have to be way above average smiths. Thus, they pay closer attention and work harder on average as students. Ditto gay men entering crafts that are historically either dominated by men or women, because they don't "belong" in either space, traditionally.

2 hours ago, BillyBones said:

I am purdy smart for an old redneck hillbilly but what in the name of the good Lord above is hyper binary sexism? 

That's an exaggerated term of my own creation. Generally, I'm talking about when someone denotes men and women to very specific traditional gender roles and ditto personalities "derived" from their gender.

[CrazyGoatLady]

Just my 2 cents worth, but as a woman, I thought I'd comment on this. I have been a member here for 2 1/2 years. In that time, I have never encountered any discouragement or prejudice from any man. In fact, everyone I have ever talked to or recieved advice from has been very helpful and encouraging. If I read anything where a man talks about his wife on his back, it is taken as humor to me because I am that fussy wife myself sometimes. Things that are considered archaic or neanderthal, to me, are not. I like for folks to be able to be themselves, and not have to check that at that door every time you open your mouth publicly. I understand some subjects are probably best not discussed as they can cause arguments and there would be no end to it because every side thinks they are right. I look to this site to be a place to have fun and relax and just conversate with people. Not just about blacksmithing, but all manner of things. Ramsberg, I truly appreciate that you do not want any women (or anyone else) to feel offended or left out, but speaking for myself, I have never felt that way. Thank you for your concern about that though. If anyone is interested in hearing, I can tell you more about I how I perceive things as a lady smith. 

[Mod30]

On that note it's time to lock this thread and get back to blacksmithing.

[Glenn]

IF anyone can site specific instances where someone is told to leave the site, I WANT to know where it is located. I will address that issue directly.

IF anyone can site specific instances where a lady is not treated as a lady, I WANT to know where it is located. I will address that issue even quicker.

Neither issue will be tolerated on IForgeIron.