Chris C Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I've heard for years (even long before getting into blacksmithing) that there is a finish used that contains Beeswax, Turpentine, Boiled Linseed Oil and Japan Dryer. I understand the mixture is 1 part BW, 1 part Turps and 1/2 part BLO...............but I've never read or heard a proportion amount for the Japan Dryer. Does anyone know what that proportion is? And is this finish even still used today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I use the mix minus the japan dryer. The ratio I use is 1pt. Beeswax to 1/2pt. Turps, and 1/2pt. Blo. I've heard others use different ratios. I mainly use it on small items that won't be out in the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Linseed turps and bees wax is a good hot finish.Apply it at a black heat. Too hot, it will smoke off and your iron will still be grey. Applied too cold and it takes quite a while to dry. It will look opaque and wet. I mix 50/50 linseed oil and turps. Then if i mix a quart of both, I use about a walnut size beeswax. This is a liquid. Add more beeswax and it becomes a paste. I think this is personal preference. Make sure you clean with alcohol when cool to to remove all the black residue. Then I apply a coat of carnuba based furniture polish and buff it a bit. Linseed turps and japan dryer is a cold finish. The japan dryer is a drying agent. Again, 50/50 linseed oil and turps. In a quart mason jar, add a "healthy pour" of japan dryer. Keep the lid on even during application as the japan dryer evaporates quick. When I apply this to say a 10' rail, by the time i get to the end, its ready for a second coat. The two finishes will look different. Both are good inside finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I've seen the mix for interior finishes that use 1 Tsp of Japan Drier with those ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 Which "ratios"...........the ones I quoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Yes, 1 part wax, 1 part turps, 1/2 part BLO also seen the amount of Japan Drier described as a generous pour so I'm not sure it's critical as to the amount of JD. If I remember right the first three parts were in cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 "generous pour'............................just like my Grandma used to say just a "pinch" of salt............or a "palm-full" of sugar. What is a "generous pour" in relationship to measuring tools? I can handle a Tsp of Japan Dryer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I can usually get real close to 1 ounce just by pouring. comes from my early years with a shot glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 I recently finished making a coal rake for a friend. I got it all nice and shiny with a wire wheel. Now I need to put the finish on. I know that typically that's done at the forge while it's still hot.............but not too hot. I think I read that as soon as it cools to "black". So my question is.............now that it's finished, do I take it back to the propane forge and stick half of it in.............heat it..............and wipe the rake with a rag saturated with my finish and then do the opposite end the same way? I think the answer to that is "yes, of course", but just "how hot" do I need to get it? I understand how to watch it cool to black, but not sure how to judge from cold to black! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Good Morning, A simple finish is Paste Floor Wax, applied with a cheap paint brush or rag. Not cold, not hot, hot enough so you have to hold it with tongs. Not so hot that it smokes off. Just a pinch, not a palmful LOL. Vegetable cooking oil is used on items that could/can be used for Food. Plain Bees wax also works, not mixed. K.I.S.S. When you brush paste Wax on, it will flow into the tiny crevasses. Too hot it will smoke a lot. Just right = Perfect. Wipe the excess off with a rag. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 In "The Art of Blacksmithing" Alex Bealer has a recipe listing 1 pt bees wax to 1/2 pt. turps to 1 pt. lamp black. IIRC he didn't specify if the ratios were by weight or volume and that makes a huge difference with the lamp black. I made a batch using paraffin and added some neatsfoot oil to soften it. Worked really well, I have some storage hooks on the barn that have been there for 21 years and no rust. Currently I like Trewax, carnuba paste wax applied to fresh coffee temp work, it is very fluid and really penetrates when melted but cools very hard and durable. Wipe off excess before it hardens, thick and it'll chip. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 19 hours ago, Chris The Curious said: "how hot" do I need to get it? Like Frosty said, as hot as a cup of coffee. At that temp you can hold it without discomfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 On 8/4/2019 at 2:21 PM, Chris The Curious said: I understand how to watch it cool to black, but not sure how to judge from cold to black! This just takes experience. a black heat is actually a rather large heat range. Keep applying early on til dead cool. When its too hot it will smoke off and leave your iron a grey color. When too cold the surface will look tacky. when its "just right" it will be a nice matte black and you will have no "tack". On 7/14/2019 at 8:47 PM, Chris The Curious said: "generous pour'............................just like my Grandma used to say just a "pinch" of salt Ask yer grandma. ;). The truth is, it doesnt matter. Most of it will evaporate out before you use up your supply. So, when ever you open it for another job, add another generous pour. Not enough and it wont dry, and "too much" is a product of your pocketbook with "just a pinch" of experience to know how generous you need to be.. Have fun., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Generous pour? We count glugs in our family. "by guess and by gosh" recipes like any civilized folk. Barbarians! It's not a critical amount and if you're applying to hot work zero Japan drier is best. Different waxes and oils have a different "black" cooking temp. You're basically heating it enough to toast it JUST to black. It's a range, not a temperature on a meter. Bees wax, turps and BLO will smoke at black heat but that's the turps volatilizing the wax and BLO. You are pyrolizing them to black and turps have a very low vapor point so it carries some of the charred wax and oil off with it. I just like the smell of the turps on hot steel, almost as much as the audience. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Well, I appreciate the additional recipes, but what I'm needing to know is how do I put a cold item in the forge and know when it is a proper temperature for applying the finish? In the absence of an answer, tell me if I'm on the right track. Put the item in the forge and remove it as soon as you can see any red color. Wait 10 minutes and then apply the finish. Right idea or Wrong??? Edit: I just noticed the "as hot as hot coffee" post. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The hot coffee temp is for paste wax finishes and isn't hot enough to darken the finish. The short answer to how do you tell if it's hot enough is. . . Put cold piece in the fire for 30 seconds, pull it and touch it with a tiny wipe of your finish, a Q tip works nicely. If it does what you want apply your finish. If it isn't put the piece back in for a shorter period, say 15 seconds, pull it and test again. When it's right apply your finish. Now, the accumulated time is only going to be a close approximation as it will have cooled between times in the fire so adjust the first time in the fire on the next piece and repeat the test sequence. After a few pieces you'll know how long to heat your steel to get it in range. From there you can adjust heat time up or down to effect the color. Be aware the amount of time will change depending on the piece, size, thickness, surface temp, etc. The same process will establish your preferred application temp whatever the piece or the finish product. I've been using Trewax for a couple decades and have learned to judge by putting a tiny wipe on the cold part and laying that side down in the fire to heat. I can pull it and take a quick look and experience has shown me how it should look when it's right. Fortunately Trewax on fresh coffee hot steel is the finish I prefer I only need to test if someone wants a different finish or darker color. Have I cleared the mud a little for you, Chris? There is NO ONE method, time, temp, anything, everything, it's an accumulation of variables. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Yup, clear as an Oklahoma river! As I mentioned, I'm just trying to finish this piece "after the fact". Typically, I hope to be able to do it as I finish forging items. This one was completed a couple of weeks ago and now I need to put the finish on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Okay, last night at our open forge, I heated up the coal rake I'd been wanting to coat. Did small sections because no forges were operating and the only heat source I had was an induction heater. Never did get it down pat as to just how hot/cool to get the steel. The finish either smoked like the devil or just melted and flowed onto the metal without darkening it. I eventually got the durned thing coated and wiped down. Some areas were extremely black, and others were just a gray black. I was only about 75% happy with the results..............but the recipient was tickled pink with the gifted coal rake. I've still a ton to learn about all of this forging stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I didn't think of it earlier but you can heat your stock in the oven. Just don't put the finish on it first or return it to the oven after applying it or the wife. . . WEELL KEELL. You. The oven's a good way to get a reasonably accurate temperature for repeatability. For small pieces I use the shop toaster oven, usually for tempering I have a good handle on finishing with the forge or a Bernzomatic torch for heat. Speaking of the Bernzomatic torch, you MIGHT be able to darken a wax/oil finish with a torch flame or passing the waxed piece through the forge flame like coloring a hammer/hawk, handle. Hmmmm. I'll have to give it a try. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Good point........thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Harris Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Chris, if the item is cold and you don’t already have a lit forge, just use a propane torch. Even a small butane torch will work. If I am only using bee’s wax, I can sometimes get away with using the oven. It smells like honey. I imagine if I had turpentine or BLO in the mix, my wife would make me sleep on the couch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 They practically chased me out of the shop when I used my mixture on the coal rake. Didn't bother me, but it sure did bother Bruce, the club's resident curmudgeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) I wonder why. Does he have respiratory problems or was it just a convenient excuse to gripe at someone, especially the "new" guy? I think the smell is kinda pleasant unless the piece is way too hot and the finish turns into a big puff of smoke. Pnut Edited September 13, 2019 by pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Too much too hot can make a heck of a cloud of smoke. A person with COPD isn't going to welcome ANY smoke, especially not wax smoke. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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