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Forge top glowing after re-lining


Cmariani

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Hi All,

I may have done a stupid. I'm about to sound super dumb so please bear with me.

I'm pretty new to smithing and I've barely had enough experience to get my feet wet. I've done just enough practice blades and simple forge welds to wear down the forge lining a bit, accidentally melt what I think was aluminum all over the bottom, and burn through a LOT of gas.

I have the Majestic 3-burner, and some poking around online showed several accounts of relining this forge with thicker/different lining to improve efficiency. After some how-to videos, I got some ceramic fiber blanket and Greentherm 26 soft firebricks and had a hey-day with a hacksaw. I replicated the shape and size of hole really well from the original lining with a hole saw, and everything fit in pretty neatly and firing it back up, everything seemed to work great. However, after awhile, the top metal starting glowing at the base of the gas tubes (first pic). I looked at the flames and they're a bit uneven, even after cleaning out the gas feeders. The pic (middle) is kind of hard to see, but the middle flame is strongest and most consistent but seems really high, the front is nearly see-through red/orange, not blue.

I've tried different sizes holes, different thicknesses of top material, combination of brick and blanket, and stepping the holes to create a venturi, and the story is always the same. The flames are always uneven somehow and the top metal always glows, starting the the same (back) burner. The bottom layer is almost the same, 1 brick and on top of the blanket, and the blanket stays cool to touch for a long time. I can see the fuel hole from the inside of the forge starting to glow first, so I'm pretty sure the fuel is igniting too soon, but I don't know what to do about it. The brick is about 2" thick and rated at 2600°. Is that enough?

At this point, I'm open to any and all suggestions. Do I need different lining material? Is the brick too thick? Clearly I didn't worry enough about the exact math of pressure and flow and such beforehand. How big of a deal is it? Sorry for the volume of questions. 

TIA.

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1 hour ago, Cmariani said:

top metal starting glowing at the base of the gas tubes

If that top of the forge is steel that is red hot, it is a serious problem.  It appears you have flame between the top of the brick and the forge shell.  How far are the burners extending into the brick?  They should extend about an inch into the brick, which means you will need  a 1" hole in the brick, assuming those are 3/4" burners.  

The red hot shell will quickly warp, the metal will oxidize and soon become brittle and fall apart.  

1 hour ago, Cmariani said:

burn through a LOT of gas

A 3 burner will go through a lot of gas.  You only need a 1 burner to work on up to 8" knives.  You can put ball valves on the back two burners (if you got the economy model) and turn them off, but be sure to stuff ceramic blanket in the top of the burners to prevent chimineying and them getting too hot.  That way you can use 1, 2 or 3 burners.  You will use 1/3 of the gas.

1 hour ago, Cmariani said:

The brick is about 2" thick and rated at 2600°. Is that enough?

That's fine.

Others will give more insight, I'm sure.

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Welcome Cmariani, (TIA?) glad to have you.

A couple general points aren't working for you here. The burner ports, (holes that allow the flame entry into the chamber) might not be large enough. A LITTLE open space around the burner nozzle is acceptable. 

As Dan says the burner nozzle, be it flare or whatever needs to be IN the liner a LITTLE bit. I don't usually recommend 1" but that's not excessive. Do NOT insert it to the point the nozzle is inside the forge chamber! 

If you don't get the flame between the liner and shell problem corrected it WILL damage the forge, eventually to the point of ruining it.

A 3 burner forge WILL be a fuel hog, you bought a forge WAY larger than you need. Join the club, most of us have over sized forges gathering dust in a corner, under a bench, etc. If your forge didn't come with them put isolation valves on your burners and make a sliding wall or use Kaowool to close off portions of your forge till you need them.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Setting the pipes into the brick solved it, thanks for the advice and all replies!!! I know this size is a fuel hog, when I first started out my end goal was to work up to longer and longer blades, even into the short sword area and I don't have the means or space for a pile of forges. I'll definitely block the unused lines though. Thank you all for the help, everything's been running great!!

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23 hours ago, Cmariani said:

Setting the pipes into the brick solved it, thanks for the advice and all replies!!!

Fantastic!  

23 hours ago, Cmariani said:

my end goal was to work up to longer and longer blades, even into the short sword area

As you probably know, you will only need the longer forge for the hardening process.  I've hardened knives up to 12" blades in a 1 burner forge (8" long, with the heat centered in the middle 5").  I've forged swords in that same forge since you only work on 6" at a time by hand.  The movable wall out of a soft brick with a small opening in the bottom center to slide a longer blade end through will allow you to do it all with this forge - 1, 2, or 3 burners.  It'll work great!  Everybody does some tweaking to get their tools the way they want them, enjoy!

Dan R

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