Cmariani Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi All, I may have done a stupid. I'm about to sound super dumb so please bear with me. I'm pretty new to smithing and I've barely had enough experience to get my feet wet. I've done just enough practice blades and simple forge welds to wear down the forge lining a bit, accidentally melt what I think was aluminum all over the bottom, and burn through a LOT of gas. I have the Majestic 3-burner, and some poking around online showed several accounts of relining this forge with thicker/different lining to improve efficiency. After some how-to videos, I got some ceramic fiber blanket and Greentherm 26 soft firebricks and had a hey-day with a hacksaw. I replicated the shape and size of hole really well from the original lining with a hole saw, and everything fit in pretty neatly and firing it back up, everything seemed to work great. However, after awhile, the top metal starting glowing at the base of the gas tubes (first pic). I looked at the flames and they're a bit uneven, even after cleaning out the gas feeders. The pic (middle) is kind of hard to see, but the middle flame is strongest and most consistent but seems really high, the front is nearly see-through red/orange, not blue. I've tried different sizes holes, different thicknesses of top material, combination of brick and blanket, and stepping the holes to create a venturi, and the story is always the same. The flames are always uneven somehow and the top metal always glows, starting the the same (back) burner. The bottom layer is almost the same, 1 brick and on top of the blanket, and the blanket stays cool to touch for a long time. I can see the fuel hole from the inside of the forge starting to glow first, so I'm pretty sure the fuel is igniting too soon, but I don't know what to do about it. The brick is about 2" thick and rated at 2600°. Is that enough? At this point, I'm open to any and all suggestions. Do I need different lining material? Is the brick too thick? Clearly I didn't worry enough about the exact math of pressure and flow and such beforehand. How big of a deal is it? Sorry for the volume of questions. TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Cmariani said: top metal starting glowing at the base of the gas tubes If that top of the forge is steel that is red hot, it is a serious problem. It appears you have flame between the top of the brick and the forge shell. How far are the burners extending into the brick? They should extend about an inch into the brick, which means you will need a 1" hole in the brick, assuming those are 3/4" burners. The red hot shell will quickly warp, the metal will oxidize and soon become brittle and fall apart. 1 hour ago, Cmariani said: burn through a LOT of gas A 3 burner will go through a lot of gas. You only need a 1 burner to work on up to 8" knives. You can put ball valves on the back two burners (if you got the economy model) and turn them off, but be sure to stuff ceramic blanket in the top of the burners to prevent chimineying and them getting too hot. That way you can use 1, 2 or 3 burners. You will use 1/3 of the gas. 1 hour ago, Cmariani said: The brick is about 2" thick and rated at 2600°. Is that enough? That's fine. Others will give more insight, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Size: that looks like the "I'll buy a dumptruck for my daily driver as I plan to haul a load of gravel a couple of times a year" situation. It might pay for itself in gas savings to get a smaller forge for general use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Like Dan said, If that ceiling layer of insulation is thicker now than the original was, you need to move your burners down into it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Welcome Cmariani, (TIA?) glad to have you. A couple general points aren't working for you here. The burner ports, (holes that allow the flame entry into the chamber) might not be large enough. A LITTLE open space around the burner nozzle is acceptable. As Dan says the burner nozzle, be it flare or whatever needs to be IN the liner a LITTLE bit. I don't usually recommend 1" but that's not excessive. Do NOT insert it to the point the nozzle is inside the forge chamber! If you don't get the flame between the liner and shell problem corrected it WILL damage the forge, eventually to the point of ruining it. A 3 burner forge WILL be a fuel hog, you bought a forge WAY larger than you need. Join the club, most of us have over sized forges gathering dust in a corner, under a bench, etc. If your forge didn't come with them put isolation valves on your burners and make a sliding wall or use Kaowool to close off portions of your forge till you need them. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 What he said is totally on point. Got an oversized forge? Isolate what you aren't using today, and use it someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Frosty said: make a sliding wall or use Kaowool to close off portions Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmariani Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Setting the pipes into the brick solved it, thanks for the advice and all replies!!! I know this size is a fuel hog, when I first started out my end goal was to work up to longer and longer blades, even into the short sword area and I don't have the means or space for a pile of forges. I'll definitely block the unused lines though. Thank you all for the help, everything's been running great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Cmariani said: Setting the pipes into the brick solved it, thanks for the advice and all replies!!! Fantastic! 23 hours ago, Cmariani said: my end goal was to work up to longer and longer blades, even into the short sword area As you probably know, you will only need the longer forge for the hardening process. I've hardened knives up to 12" blades in a 1 burner forge (8" long, with the heat centered in the middle 5"). I've forged swords in that same forge since you only work on 6" at a time by hand. The movable wall out of a soft brick with a small opening in the bottom center to slide a longer blade end through will allow you to do it all with this forge - 1, 2, or 3 burners. It'll work great! Everybody does some tweaking to get their tools the way they want them, enjoy! Dan R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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