Firegirl Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi Guys. I need to weld or braise aluminum to plate steel. It does not need to be a structural support, it just has to stay in an upright position. I have an Arc Welder and an O/A setup...which would you recommend? Thanks :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I don't think it's possible[hope i'm wrong]the melting point for aluminum is to low compared to steel . would a rivet work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Bend a leg on the end of the Al. and bolt/rivit to steel. Welding the 2 won't work...as Pete said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I have never done that but, check this out. Brazing, Soldering & Welding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Apparently, there are methods to do this but the process is simply not something practical for the usual home hobbyist or even professionals unless that is specifically what they do. However here is another link discussing the same topic that explains more. How do you weld steel and aluminum together? Hope this is helpful :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firegirl Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Thanks for the help guys...It's a sculpture piece, and if I have to I'll use a cold connect method, but since I'm welding the steel part anyway, I was trying to be consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Why not look into industrial adhesives. They have glues for steel to steel application, and if I remember the TV program correctly, the glue bond holds and the steel tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 The do that all the time out here using explosive welding. Note that dissimular metals can have a FIERCE galvanic effect and things oxidize away in a very short time. Are you sure you need the two in contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Me thinks, that would be one of the processes a home hobbyist would want to avoid ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firegirl Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Explosive Welding??? Sounds Dangerous...Please tell me this is a joke!!! Anyway, if Glenn could maybe give me the name of that industrial adhesive he mentioned, I think I'll try his method...although I am going to order that Super Alloy welding rod from the website Dodge suggested and play with it later...I'll let you all know how it turns out :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 (edited) Explosion welding is real, but, as far as I understand, only done on a large scale such as laminating a sheet of aluminum to a sheet of steel. The process that I saw was done underground under extremely controlled conditions. I seem to remember the steel sheet being something like 6' x 10' x 3 or 4" thick and the aluminum (or may not have even been aluminum) was thinner but same sized rectangle. It was featured on History Channel's Modern Marvels - Welding. Also, Check this out. Explosion welding Edited May 28, 2008 by Dodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Back in the 60's, the Navy was removing the steel upper decks from its destroyers and replacing with an all aluminum prefabbed upper deck, the Aluminum upper deck had a steel transition piece adhered to it so the whole thing could be arc welded to the hull of the existing destoyer. Check out your local body shop, van tops, vehicle side panels and fenders and Door hinges are now fastened to the vehicle body with glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Explosive welding is a solid state fusion process used to weld many dissimular materials. Here at New Mexico Tech we have the Energetic Materials Research and Training Center that deals with explosives for a number of industrial processes---like making diamonds, explosive welding and even art! On campus are a number of art pieces made using explosives and they are not all that large. EMRTC also teaches first responder classes for Fire and LEO people dealing whith chemical, radiological and explosive dangers. It is dangerous; but then so is a bottle of Acetylene or 10 gallons of gasoline, things many of us have around us on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Covington Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I had been told Tig could be used so I contacted Lincoln and this is what they said,"Unfortunately there is not a way to TIG weld Aluminum to Mild Steel. These materials will not fuse together." Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompdw Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Explosive welding is for real. That is how dissimiliar metals are joined. This is done under very strict conditions. This is not some guy with two pieces of metal and some dynamite. This is how the metal is made for U.S. quarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 curiosity....what would happen if you took a torch and heated a spot on the plate and touched the aluminium on it???? inquiring minds want to know!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 3m 4941 is a closed cell acrylic foal with a acrylic adhesive on both sides. 50% of strength upon application, 100% strength (1000 psi) at 72 hours. Application at room temp (above 55*F), and weathers very well. 3M™ VHB™ Tapes provide the convenience and simplicity of a tape fastener and are ideal for use in many interior and exterior bonding applications. In many situations, they can replace rivets, spot welds, liquid adhesives and other permanent fasteners. Tapes are made with acrylic foam which is viscoelastic in nature, which gives the foam energy absorbing and stress relaxing properties which provides these tapes with their unique characteristics. The acrylic chemistry provides outstanding durability performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 curiosity....what would happen if you took a torch and heated a spot on the plate and touched the aluminium on it???? inquiring minds want to know!!!!! Just a guess, Pete, but I believe if it was hot enough to fuse the aluminum, it would flash for a moment and then not stick. Otherwise, it just wouldn't be hot enough and not stick anyway. Many other metals can fuse easier than others. Aluminum to steel? Its just one of those mysteries of the universe;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 I'm With Dodge On This ,when I've Used Aluminum It Just Dissolves More Than Melts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEERESMITH Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Firegirl, If you go to any automotive body shop, they will be able to tell you which adhesive to use for your application. They may even help you glue it using there product if you take your item along. I am a mechanic at a Ford dealer. We also have a body shop. The body guys have "glued" things together for me using a product called "panel bond" This particular product is used for glueing on metal auto body panels such as rocker panels, door skins ect. I am certain that an auto body technician could hook you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firegirl Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Well Fellas, I'm almost done with the sculpture! I welded the steel pieces with the ARC and I have an industrial strength product from Devcon called 2-Ton Transparent Epoxy...The last of it is curing now and seems to be doing just fine. The glue even held up to the piece being dropped before it was fully cured I should be able to post a picture by the end of the day. Thanks for all your help, I'm gonna keep it in mind for the NEXT project I do with modern techniques... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ertwdan Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Any time that you bond Aluminium to steel you will have a corrosion problem unless you seperate them electrically. This is done in the marine industry when they attach an Aluminium cabin to a steel hull. The adhesive method will seperate the metals to prevent the galvanic reaction and keep things from rusting too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 You can join the two by soldering them. It can also be done by brazing, but this is NOT easy for the average hobbyist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 And remembering that Soldering, Brazing and Welding are all Heat Ranges, not necessarily the using of one specific material or alloy per se. For instance, tiging with silicon bronze is actually brazing as is the use of bronze to braze cast iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe H Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I build customs signs, and we use adhesives alot for certain things where welding isn't the best option. One thing I have learned is that gluing steel to aluminum works ok for indoor applications. If it's going to be outside it will fail. Aluminum to aluminum, or steel to steel will last indefinately, but dissimilar metals just do not work. The reason is different coefficiants of thermal expansion. One metal expands/contracts more than the other, and it is only a matter of time before the glue is ripped apart. I have actually done experiments with many different adhesives in attempts to find one that will work. What I have done is glue some Al to another piece of Al, a piece of steel to a piece of steel, and some Al to some steel. I'd put all 3 pieces in the sun for awhile, then toss them in the freezer overnight. It usually only takes one of these cycles before you can break the aluminum and steel apart by hand, even though the similar metals are strong as ever. We spent many thousands of dollars in warranty service work before this sank in good. Now, gluing aluminum to steel is near the top of our list of no-no's. Silver solder would likely be a good choice for you if a mechanical means of attachment is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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