K-9JAX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Hi Everyone, Looking to buy my first gas forge. Making my own forge is just not something I want to take on at this time. I am planning on making knives. I was initially looking pretty hard at the Diamondback Ironworks Single Burner Knifemakers forge. I then came across Gizmo's Fabrications St. Helen's Inferno Forge. This particular forge has some options to choose from. One of which is burner placement. You can have it vertically or horizontally. In doing some research on this site, I found discussions on burners mounted vertically or on an angle (both of which still has the flame hitting the floor of the forge). What are the benefits (or non-benefits) of having a horizontally mounted burner? Also, does anyone have any experience with Gizmo's Fabrications Forges? I have read some people's opinions on Diamondback Ironworks forges on this site, but I was unable to find anything about Gizmo's forges on here. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1" kaowool will use a lot more propane. I generally advise 2 1" layers. ESPECIALLY if you want to forgeweld in it. (I know you never plan to forgeweld your own patternwelded damascus billets; otherwise you would have told us that critical bit of info...); note the one saying it will get to 2280 degF where forgewelding is usually considered around 2300 degF. Generally running anything full out is hard on it and shortens it's uselife. As for vertical burners: they have more issues with chimney effects and also a better chance of re-running exhaust from the front door through them causing excessive CO production. So not impressed. Will you be at quad-state this fall? Usually a number of forges for sale at it. I built my first two propane forges at an ABANA Affiliate's forge building workshops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, K-9JAX said: What are the benefits (or non-benefits) of having a horizontally mounted burner? The advantage is that, if positioned HIGH UP on a side wall, it passes over the heating work. The flame must bounce around inside the forgte for a nice long way before heated oxygen molecules can contact heated ferrous surfaces and combine to make scale. Also what Thomas brought up about this burner position is true. Although I have never had a moments problem with reintroduction of spent gases in any of the forges I or my students have built; that doesn't mean others haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I looked up those forges and found NOTHING to recommend them; their burners are an out of date design (little wonder there are no photos of the equipment running); they include a glass window in the front door. which is more poor design work; they are under insulated, and not designed to be able to expand and contact during heat cycles without warping. Aside from all that they would probably be worth $200--not $400. So what are they designed for? To look good and make money. Diamondback brand are good quality forges. No, I don't like his politics, but there aren't many making GOOD forges in that price range ; is are (darn it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Actually, building your own forge is quicker and easier than you would think. You not only will save money you will learn a lot about forges. Check out the Build a Gas Forge attachment at the Forge Supplies page on my web-site. You can find the url and other contact info on my Profile. Let me know if I can help you. I prefer contact by e-mail. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9JAX Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Thank you guys for the input. I appreciate it! Maybe I will look more into building a forge, if not for my first one, maybe as an upgrade at a later time. I will most certainly be back to pick your brains. I will check out your website Wayne. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9JAX Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Mike, thank you for taking the time to research the forge I asked about. I appreciate the honest opinion! I will check out your website Wayne. Thank you! Thomas, unfortunately I will not be at quad-state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Lots of people don't have the time or desire to build their first forge; so long as they either either have the patience to read up on what makes a forge good or bad, or else take the advice of others who have done so, buying a forge can be the best use of their money. So far (18 years) I have only seen three choices worth what the buyer comes up with: Any of the Chile forges, which are all expensive enough to make your budget beg for mercy: about $1200 and shipping. Diamondback forges, which cost about $500 and half the shipping. Devil forge oval model with single burner. Unlike the first two examples, DFSW forges cannot be considered as turn-key. You need to replace their abominable firebrick with some cast refractory from Wane, or a high alumina kiln shelf; rigidize the ceramic fiber blanket after adding an additional 1" thick layer, fire both layers, and then finish coat the inside with Plistex or Matrikote (also available from Wane). Apparantly they are no longer available from eBay, although a single Devil forge of the right model is being sold on there by another party; it probably has the foriegn regulator, which is useless, but is only $150, which allows you to purchase a nice regulator and stainless steel braided hose for the difference. Input the line below on eBay and get it before it's gone. DFSW Gas Propane Forge for Knifemaking Farriers Blacksmiths Furnace Burner U.S.A The upside of all this is that you end up with a very good forge for very little money. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 For my birthday, my lovely wife gave me a commercially available burner of the mikey style. With hose and regulator I believe it was around $90 delivered, I then read forges 101 twice. Got the kaowool, cast-o-lite and metrikote from mr. Coe for another $90 and maybe another $20 in nipple and screws but i did have a small air tank and enough scrap to build it I am super happy with it and you could not buy a better one for the $200 ive got in it, took about 3 weeks to finish but was not hurrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 1:27 AM, Mikey98118 said: I looked up those forges and found NOTHING to recommend them; their burners are an out of date design (little wonder there are no photos of the equipment running); they include a glass window in the front door. which is more poor design work; they are under insulated, Seriously if you looked into them you would find out that is just a square hole in the door NOT glass. I see no reason for the burner to be "out of date"....i still use and make my own charcoal. People have been doing that for thousands of years. He also has video on the website of one running. On 5/30/2018 at 11:55 PM, ThomasPowers said: 1" kaowool will use a lot more propane. I generally advise 2 1" layers. ESPECIALLY if you want to forgeweld in it. He offers an option for 2 inch for $30 more. Come on guys this looks like an EXCELLENT forge for the money. Look a little deeper. If im missing something please enlighten me!!! On 5/30/2018 at 11:04 PM, K-9JAX said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm not terribly impressed. The shell is WAY too heavy, square pipe is a bad choice made out of convenience for the maker it also limits the capacity of the forge. 2" of ceramic blanket is ADEQUATE, not an extra for an additional $30. The video doesn't show the forge reaching yellow but both ends are wide open and it's under insulated. I may have missed it but it doesn't look like it's getting hotter during the video either. The serious red flag I see is his use of air hose for propane supply hose, barb connections and hose clamps. This is a SERIOUS BAD thing with propane. Propane is chemically very active and eats rubber not formulated to resist it. Air hose is NOT safe nor are barb and hose clamp fittings. The high pressure regulator and hose he offers for an additional $50 can be had for under $20 off Amazon, the pressure gauges can be had at a good hardware store in the $10-$20 range and under $10 from Grainger. Amazon shows them available too. I just looked at vacuum gauges and know pressure gauges are there in a range of qualities from $7 up to several hundred. To buy an adequate bare minimum package from this maker you're looking at $200 + $30 + a regulator and propane rated supply hose, figure about another $75 depending on location and the luck of the sale. Here fall is good deal on weed burners so it's a good tie to buy one for it's reg and hose. Knowing what I do about propane and forges I'd pass on these even if I couldn't build one easily. Of course that's just my opinion I could be wrong. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 17 hours ago, JlBlohm said: Seriously if you looked into them you would find out that is just a square hole in the door NOT glass. I see no reason for the burner to be "out of date"....i still use and make my own charcoal. People have been doing that for thousands of years. He also has video on the website of one running. Since you see no reason, my advice is for you to buy one and experience that forge yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlblohm Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 At least he has the wool sealed and is a basically turn key unit. Better than what this guy is selling! 1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said: Since you see no reason, my advice is for you to buy one and experience that forge yourself. I have no need for a forge. I have been building my own forges for quite a while. K-9JAX asked fir our opinion and we all gave him our opinion. So my honest opinion is i have seen way worse forges built and have personaly built worse. Its a little on the pricey side but he has to make money...he isn't doing it for fun.the wool is sealed and the option to have 2 inches is good. I belive it would be worth the money. So there it is...my honest opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I really don't want to turn this into a "thing" and I tend to agree the forge maker involved in the picture you present is worse. However please note my red flag warn you off issue is exactly the one in the picture you posted. The use of cheap air hose for the propane supply and hose clamped barbs rather than propane rated hose and fittings. I'll give the fellow the benefit of the doubt that he just doesn't know any better but basic safety is important. Especially in a gas burning appliance. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo313 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Also, whether his claim is legitimate or not is for others to debate, but he says his 2 burner will reach 2800F and the custom firebrick inside made of Rutland refractory cement is only rated to 2200. Aside: This is a matter of personal preference, but I find it difficult to put good faith in resellers. He's listing the 25lb castable Rutland at close to double the price -- not packaged down into convenience size or anything. Just "I went to the hardware store, bought a pail, here's hoping I can find a sucker to pay me double plus shipping for it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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