Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 They came to me with the horn for the old 20's Buick my boss owns and it needs a bracket reattached. I'm thinking either silicon bronze mig weld, or silver solder for the repair. Any ideas on pros or cons of either? I'd like to not disturb the patina as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 What's the join surface look like on the bracket. It looks like someone already tried a tig weld but it could just be a poor job of silver soldering. Is the joint the Nut? In the '20s it'd probably be lead soldered with maybe a resist on the nut's threads. You could tin the join surface on the nut, chase the threads clean then solder it to the horn. The horn is thin enough to reach soldering temp before the nut but the nut being tinned doesn't need to get as hot to make a good solder join. If we're talking soldering the nut on the horn I think I'd try tinning the nut and cleaning the threads. My opinion is early speculation though I'm not positive what you need to do. Color matching a tig weld will be problematical unless you can trim a strip off the horn to use a filler rod. . . . Yeah, I don't like that one either. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Be very careful with heat as there are other solder joints close by! (my guess would be a lead based solder originally too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Here's maybe some better pictures. The two old blobs look like brass. Thomas good point. I had thought I might use a wet towel around the area to keep the heat localized. I should add that I dont think the stud needs to come off the nut. There is a screw on adapter on the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 A soldering heat shield should fit between the horn sections and they don't scald like steam. Yeah, if you don't need that section to move I'd solder it all. A low temp silver solder aught to do it for you though I'd still do the tinning method and limit how much heat I needed to put on the horn. I picked up some 300 f. silver solder and paste flux to put the bronze guard and pommel on the seax Theo sent me ad I haven't finished. Lower temp solders are available too. And oh yeah, sand ALL the lead solder off and away from the repair. I'd grind the old braze, weld, ? ? ? clean and smooth. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks frosty. I have silver solder at home. I'll check the temp. I like the idea of tinning the nut first to keep the temp down on the thinner part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Keep it simple. It was originally done with regular lead solder. Looks like someone tried to braze it at one point. There are some low temp silver solders out there in the 400F range like Force 44 Might be a job for your little induction heater for localized heat if you do not own a large soldering iron or copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks Biggun, I hadn't thought to try the mini ductor. I was thinking to use my small soldering torch. Other then that I have some of those old copper headed soldering irons but I've never even tried to use those. ( got a few in box lots from estate auctions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 NONE of the hard solders are anywhere close to low temp enough to make that repair safely. To my mind the best way would be to use something like Sugru and make a strap clear around the tube and fillet around the nut to make a smooth streamlined joint. Avoid color issues by using black, which will harmonize with the rubber parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Have you used the silicon bronze mig welder. We can run that through our pulse welder. Lays a beautiful bead. And I'm thinking with the instant heat a mig gives and with some wet rags the heat affect zone may be minimal plus you know it will be strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 I've heard of sugru but never noticed it in stores. Why do you say they are all too high temp to repair it safely? Brass can take some heat and the main heat will be on that stud with the nut. My original question about one or the other method, my main concern with the silicon bronze mig was that if my heat was too high it could blow through and that I really want to avoid, but if it was the better choice then I would have tried it. Just now, Kevin Olson said: plus you know it will be strong. I do. I have only needed to use the bronze once and it does lay a nice bead but that was on steel. I'd have to practice with it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Your right das. As soon as i posted i realized that weding brass with brass might not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Hmm. Couldn't hurt to experiment. I have some old junk cymbals I could experiment with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 fit the pieces up, clean, flux, and soft solder - done by the time it takes to read through this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Thats funny das. Back in 1980 or so my bubby the drum player had a cracked symbol and I said "I know how to braze, lets try it" Just ended up melting a big hole in it. Flame torch brazing. LoL. I was 16 then but I would like to try that again with the pulse welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Daswulf said: I've heard of sugru but never noticed it in stores. Why do you say they are all too high temp to repair it safely? Brass can take some heat and the main heat will be on that stud with the nut. My original question about one or the other method, my main concern with the silicon bronze mig was that if my heat was too high it could blow through and that I really want to avoid, but if it was the better choice then I would have tried it. I do. I have only needed to use the bronze once and it does lay a nice bead but that was on steel. I'd have to practice with it more. Target carries Sugru. You can also order online. The shelf life is a problem with it. You can’t just keep stock on hand. IME (which is quite a bit) most brass puddles at VERY close to the same temps as easy solders! Soft solders are a different story. You are dealing with pretty thin brass sheet there. It heats quickly. I would consider it too risky. If I didn’t use Sugru I would go with epoxy. The Sugru would be easier to make it pretty with though... and extremely durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 This isn't a rush job so I will probably attempt something tomorrow or Friday. Right now my hands are full. I really appreciate the ideas and experience. If I go with silver solder I have the 400 degree stuff. I might take an old cymbal in to work to try with the mig silicon bronze. I appreciate your advise from experience bigfoot but I really think I'm going to try one of the other methods first. Hey if it doesn't work out that's always an option to fix it and a way to hide a hole if things dont work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud in PA Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I see that BigGunDoctor Mentioned Force 44. I have used it a bit to install sights on guns, and it is easy to use and pretty strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I've used 400° solder to reattach ramrod pipes on old muzzleloader's, works fine and very strong to date never had one come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 the fix is - Low Temp solder ! clean area of all old solder use scraper if need be ! & I mean REALLY Clean !!! is a must - propane or butane torch low heat ! wet rags around other solder joints in the area ! Heat is not your friend in this cool is it can be tricky not to melt the other joints just did something like this 4 month ago was shown how by a Master Sliver smith a good friend of mine Steve's Welding Massive amount of useless spaces removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Harris Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Which did you choose, and how did it go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 I got it barely stuck with the silver solder at home. I wanted to use my mini torch at work but it finally died after many years of loyal use and unfair abuse. So the project has sat on my toolbox waiting. I did get a new mini torch but we hit the busy season in collision repair and it's been waiting. I'll have to see if I can get on that soonish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Wind instruments are soldered with 60/40 lead tin solder and a small gas torch, plenty of videos on you tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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