ds99 Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Hey guys so i have had a bar of zirconium for a while didn't use it as i didn't want to burn down the house :-) so now i have the option to move equipment outside so i want to start experimenting .....i know the finish obviously effects the end product but what i am interested in is the coloring or blackening i have heard this done in a heat treat oven but i cant find anywhere the temp range it takes to do it. i assume its going to take a playing with to get it how i like but i don't know where to start even if i had the low temp i could work up....can anyone help? Quote
Frosty Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 I'm not sure what you're asking, it sounds like you want to use zirconium as a patination agent of some sort. I've never heard of this but there's a lot I've never heard. Where can I read about coloring or blackening with zirconium? Frosty The Lucky. Quote
John in Oly, WA Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 Can't answer your question, but I found this interesting bit while looking it up - "In powder form, zirconium is highly flammable, but the solid form is much less prone to ignition." So, be careful if you're putting it in a forge. Quote
SLAG Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 Zirconium powder IS used in exploding incendiary rounds that are used to trash lightly armored personnel carriers, etc. and sniper rounds. For example check out Raufus rounds. ("the Finnish wonder") for a worthy example. They work wonders. Trust me on that subject. Regards, SLAG. Quote
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 We had some Raufus rounds at the machine gun dealer I worked for. Quote
SLAG Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 I am delighted that Mr. Biggundoctor is also, interested in this arcane subject. I am so happy that I will provide just a few more exciting facts. This type of projectile is a variety of semi-armor-incendiary/armor-piercing ammunition. One example of same is the Raufoss Mk 211 round. (yes chaps I got the first spelling wrong, sorry). B.G.Doctor, were the said rounds for fifty caliber? They are used to trash lightly thin-skinned armored vehicles and are also used as sniper rounds for such weapons as the 50 cal. Barrett and McMillen Tac50 sniper rifles. (among numerous other such firearms). This round has a tungsten carbide central core and a rap-around zirconium inner jacket, and a high explosive section just ahead of the core (often comprised of the RDX military grade high explosive and another incendiary chemical ahead of it at the distal head of the round. On contact the primary incendiary and explosive detonation and the tungsten carbide core, plus explosive plus primary explosive incendiary fire which pierces the armor skin or soldier. The round penetrates and it breaks up into many pieces and the basal zirconium ignites. It burns fiercely for up to 25 minutes. That fire is very hard to extinguish. So after this long song and dance, my main point is that powdered zirconium is a very serious incendiary and should be treated with great care. Cheers, SLAG. Quote
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 Yep, or samples were .50 cal. We had ammunition samples from around the world for various calibers. We were also a dealer for Nammo out of Sweden - limited range .308 was one of the main items marketed towards nuclear protective forces. 800 meters and then it destabilized and fell. Infrared tracers were another seller. We had infrared parachute flares for the M203s, as well as red phosphorus smoke grenades that not only provided a smoke screen but also defeated thermal imaging devices wit the multiple burning segments. It always amazes me how we can come up with so may ways to kill our fellow man............... You would think we would have gotten tired of doing so after all these millennium. Quote
ds99 Posted April 15, 2018 Author Posted April 15, 2018 yeh i know all about the dangers grinding cutting and drilling milling ect...also know about the use's the military use it for from what i read the most common use for it is in grenades...i would love to have a few of them! i actually have had this bar for a while and just recently i mounted one of my grinders and drill press on a rolling cart so i can bring it out side and work on it.....i was able to polish it and heat with a torch to get a very shiny black with a lil green hue to it looks great but the knife i have planed (aactually want this one for myself) will have mokuti bolsters and zirconium for the rest of the handle Oh on a folder.....So what i am after is a flat black i talked with another maker and he told me to sand blast it and do 3 cycles in the oven at 1200deg for 20 mins each time and then coat it in 3in 1 oil.....the way it came out of the oven each cycle got darker but it almost looked black in the background with what looked like lite rust on it....so i kept going when i got done and rubed it with oil SOME of that rusty color dissapeered and it turned much darker but there is still enough of this rusty color to make it completely UN acceptable so now i am kinda stumped again Quote
Steve Sells Posted April 15, 2018 Posted April 15, 2018 After baking at 1200F , a knife blade wont be a knife any more Quote
ds99 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Posted April 20, 2018 maybe i worded it wrong the zirconium that gets the 1200 heat is for part of the handle on a folder not the blade Quote
Justin Carnecchia Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 Grind like you would titanium, being careful with the sparks.. My understanding of the finishing process, as I haven't worked with it, is sand to a high polish, then heat red hot and air cool. Should give the black patina I assume you're looking for. Please post pics when done, I'm sure everyone would like to see how it turns out. Quote
Justin Carnecchia Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 Just read something interesting, apparently small pieces can spontaniously combust. Sounds like tiny little pieces and at higher ambient temperatures, but kind of scary. Have to assume that most little bits are going to burn up as they spark off the grinder but adds a whole different level of being careful. Quote
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 21, 2018 Posted April 21, 2018 Magnesium is like that. Mill it, chop it, weld it with no problems, but start to saw it and you have to watch the chips as they can start on fire. Quote
ds99 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Posted April 24, 2018 yes i was told anything with a cross section of .02 or smaller can spontaneously combust if the temp his higher than 70 deg. i have put one of my grinders and a small drill press on a cart to work the stuff outside my band saw also has wheels that comes out too then i blow everything off and keep it clean before it comes back inside Quote
Steve Sells Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 with out a location 70 can mean anything, so is useless Quote
ThomasPowers Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 70 Kelvin and I'm staying far far away! Quote
ds99 Posted May 4, 2018 Author Posted May 4, 2018 The 70 deg is fahrenhiet it refers to the air temp needed for these to self combust (again also needs to be les than .02 in cross section) so say you have a bunch of this dust and its 50 deg F in youre shop nothing will happen if the temp in your shop goes up to above 70 deg F then it can self ignite....now this does not guarantee it will self ignite there has got to be other variables i guess because i have rolled my grinder out side ground some zirconium and i always use the air compressor to blow off the grinder and the cart its on before i bring it inside but the other day it was hot out deffinitly above 70 so i left it outside for a while and nothing self ignited so not sure what makes it do it sometimes and not other times but i have been told the cross section needs to be less than .02 and the temp needs to be above 70 deg F for it to kick off so take it for whats its worth.....i am going to bring grinder band saw and even a small drill press out side when working it i would rather be safe than sorry Quote
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